Is There A God?

[stonabus]

.

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

K, I am so done, this same thing has been ping-ponging back and forth mindlessly through the whole thread, as even mentioned.

That is usually the whole point with this kind of stuff
Not that anybody ever had much use for it....because none of us really knows jack about anything at the end of the day

[Mephis]

That is usually the whole point with this kind of stuff
Not that anybody ever had much use for it....because none of us really knows jack about anything at the end of the day

Nope and you both make your selves look rediclious.

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Rediclious??
hehe sure!
This is just how we are, no ideals will ever change that
Sad but that is mostly how it is, not that it matters much as life goes on anyways.

[davedvdy]

Nope and you both make your selves look rediclious.

Was this post aimed at me as well? please clarify. Nothing I said made me look ridiculous . I don't believe even the people on this thread that disagree with me, thought that. *ducks for cover*

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Hardly man.....I think some of this is quite healthy talk.
No need to duck!
Niels

[exnihilo]

wow, this thing went on all night. so who won?



















j/k *lol*

¢g

[Blue Calx]

Stonabus won.

[Animal]

I never did understand why an all knowing, all loving God would have to come down to earth in human form to sacrifice himself to himself in order to redeem us from the wrath of himself.

[flank]

I never did understand why an all knowing, all loving God would have to come down to earth in human form to sacrifice himself to himself in order to redeem us from the wrath of himself.

yea, which makes me wonder, why all the wrath in the first place? What did we do, and why did he allow it to happen, could have saved himself alot of trouble?

[big_black]

Faith does not need an explanation, does it? I never require one because often it is not based on rational, provable facts or instances.

[LesStrat]

Mattt, you're trying to compare apples and airplanes. The same explanations will not suffice.

[LesStrat]

You bring up an interesting point: Many people cannot explain their beliefs. That's true. And it's sad.

One thing for which I have always respected Catholics: most Catholics KNOW their beliefs. They have been trained well. Too many Protestant and Pentecostal Christians do not really understand their belief. Again, that's sad.

[Gearjoneser]

I've avoided the word 'brainwashing' during this whole thread, but let's examine the possibility that the human mind can easily be manipulated by repeated messages, images, and response to the punishment/reward system.

Since the word Catholicism came up, and is what I was raised as, I'll go right into it.

As a baby, it's assumed that you were born with sin, therefore you need to be Baptized. Why on earth would a baby need to be absolved of sins? It's absurd! Really. Think about it. Original sin is a concept that is more bizarre than anything I can think of from other religions, besides the thousand wives in the afterlife.

As a child, you're usually physically forced to attend Christian studies, Sunday mass, and all other holy day masses. I've seen kids slapped in the church parking lot, just because they were being forced to go. As you recite the same lines over and over, they begin to sound more feasible, even though most of the wording is foreign to the way we speak nowadays. When this form of learning is started at preschool, continuing over a person's lifetime, it's most definitely a mental conditioning that's happening. No matter how rational a person is, this kind of constant conditioning will make a person believe nearly anything.

Now, here's the strangest part. As you sit there reciting scriptures, the image that is most present is a gigantic model of Jesus hanging from a cross with nails driven through his hands, and feet, and a crown of thorns pushed into his head. The equivalent of that in a prison camp would be being forced to admit to a crime, while the image in front of you is a scary looking man with a billy club and jumper cables.

And then there's the part about confession. I've literally seen people that live puritanical lifestyles, free of any real sin, walk into these interrogation stalls and make stuff up, just because confession was....uh oh, today!! LOL
Keep in mind, you're confessing sins to a guy with very limited life experience in most cases.......certainly not a mental health professional, just a guy who punishes you by telling you to pray the same prayer X amount of times.

Now, here's the part I can't fathom. How does any of this connect you with spirituality? They've scared you into reciting things so many times that a punishment of eternal flames sounds realistic. As some sort of wierd sacrifice, they make people constantly stand and kneel. Is it to keep people awake? In a time when even the church is aware of transmitted diseases, they insist that cheap wine can be drank by all, and it's symbolism is blood!!! On top of that, the Pope discourages responsible birth control methods, even in parts of the world that are over populated, impoverished, and ravaged by AIDS.

I'm treading a slippery slope by even mentioning the word 'brainwash', but I can't see that it's anything but that. It's no wonder so many are psychologically unable to let it go, and simply live their lives as decent and normal people, free of religion. Some of the most psychologically damaged and dysfunctional people I've seen are the ones sitting there at mass.

I know this might come off as terribly insulting to most church go'ers, but just ponder some of it for awhile. You aren't going to a place called hell, it doesn't exist. The only hell that exists is a mind firmly planted in the negative.

[LesStrat]

Well, I think I have explained my position clearly in the past. It is not a "fear" based system, nor is it simply a "reward-punishment" system. It is a "LOVE" system. No one "brainwashed" me in to believing. I came to the saving knowledge of Christ on my own, through a personal encounter. I could only quote one verse of the Bible prior to that, and I had never read anything outside of my infrequent and sporadic Sunday school attendance.


I don't want to venture into a flame war with other believers. Suffice it to say that some of my issues with Catholic doctrine were addressed in your post, Joe.

[Gearjoneser]

I know I treaded thin ice by 'going there.' Trust me, no disrespect is intended.
I really think that the basis of most religions is a good one....it's a framework that teaches people to live their lives as best they can. I just wish that religion was a purer ceremony that connects people with their source, but it's never appeared that way to me. I think wedding ceremonies are much purer, because it's all about celebrating love. I'd feel much more likely to attend church if they'd take down all the crosses (a symbol of death) and replace them with hearts. I'd love to see an alter with nothing but statues with smiles on their faces, and a giant statue of a heart in the middle of it.

Anyone with me on that? hahaha

[TimmyPage]

I really think that the basis of most religions is a good one....it's a framework that teaches people to live their lives as best they can.

All the great religions in the world (Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam etc) have one thing in common, and it's what Gearjoneser said. All of them encourage you to live your life, do your job in life (especially Hinduism), not harm others, and respect the divine (God, Allah, the general concept of great divine.. all of which I believe are one being)

The bad religions are ones like scientology which require you to give everything into it for the benifit of the religion, not yourself, same with cults.

[LesStrat]

I know I treaded thin ice by 'going there.' Trust me, no disrespect is intended.
I really think that the basis of most religions is a good one....it's a framework that teaches people to live their lives as best they can. I just wish that religion was a purer ceremony that connects people with their source, but it's never appeared that way to me. I think wedding ceremonies are much purer, because it's all about celebrating love. I'd feel much more likely to attend church if they'd take down all the crosses (a symbol of death) and replace them with hearts. I'd love to see an alter with nothing but statues with smiles on their faces, and a giant statue of a heart in the middle of it.

Anyone with me on that? hahaha

I'm treading with you. Our church doesn't have a crucifix. Not that it is unimportant, but it is only PART of the story. The cross matters, but the resurrection is greater.

One problem with some churches is the emphasis on PART of who Jesus is. Some still see Him as a baby in a manger (He was). Some see Him as a Teacher (true). Some see only His death (it happened). But the story did not stop with any of these chapters. It continued and continues.

Without love, all else is nothing and empty.

We expanded our mission statement to one similar to Hillsong Australia (we added the last part after hearing theirs).

Love God.
Love People.
Love Life.

[TimmyPage]

Love God.
Love People.
Love Life.

+1

Now that I've agreed with some points from both sides of the arguement.. cant we all do the same and get along?

[Pecan]

The brainwashing thing is a bit more possible with the catholic religion then the other christian beleifs. The others people normally go to after some kind of experiance or they were brought up as a christian but its not until something happens in their life that they actually decide to become one. A lot of my friends are now, and I would disagree that they as Baptists or Lutherans have been brainwashed. But the catholic thing is a bit weirder. The other thing is, our culture is a christian culture really, theres a reason why most of us become christians instead of Hindus. Its because we've been brought up in this culture. We are exposed more to christian beleifs so they seem more possible then say Hindu beleifs. That is a form of brainwashing you could say.