cheap strat - how to fix intonation

[watersbluebird]

i bought a cheap strat from flea-bay. intonation was way out. so i thought i'd move the trem bridge back a little bit. when notes were fretted, those near the nut were very sharp. now that i've moved the bridge back, the 12th frets are bang in tune, but those near the nut are still a tiny bit sharp. is there a way to sort out these problem notes?
please no replies saying get a fender etc. this is what i have. period as you guys over the pond might say.

[Benjy_26]

Get a Fender.







J/K.

If notes are sharp, move the bridge saddles back a bit.

[WORSHIPTEAM]

If notes are sharp, move the bridge saddles back a bit.

+1
What kind of tuner are you using? If it's just a standard plug and play, then there is going to be a little give and take between open and 12th fret. Also, are you doing a 12th fret harmonic or are you fretting @ the 12th.?

[Cenulab]

If you're good at the 12th fret but sharp toward the nut, it's possible (and probable) that you need to file the nut slots a bit and effectively lower the action at the nut...

[theodie]

If you're good at the 12th fret but sharp toward the nut, it's possible (and probable) that you need to file the nut slots a bit and effectively lower the action at the nut...

The nut could be cut wrong in the first place. The String might be making contact with the front of the slot rather than the back of the slot like it is supposed to. This screws things all up!

watersbluebird, tell us what technique do you use to do your Intonation????

[Gearjoneser]

Here's my thread in the Vault. It sounds like you need to lower the slots in the nut a little. Also, when you intonate, make sure every note on the neck reads dead center on a tuner.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=72309

[theodie]

If you lower the slots yourself, angle the nutfile downward twords the headstock so, it cuts the slot so the string hits the back of the slot first.

[watersbluebird]

cheers guys. i am extremely fussy when it comes to intonation, but not fussy enough to get a fender! i read somewhere that you play harmonics at the 12th fret, then play the 12th fret. if the note is sharper than the 'monic, then take the saddle away from the neck (toward the bridge) and vice versa.
so do i need to lower the whole nut by filing along the bottom, or should i file each slot individually? does this really make the difference? cheers, steve w

[Mephis]

cheers guys. i am extremely fussy when it comes to intonation, but not fussy enough to get a fender! i read somewhere that you play harmonics at the 12th fret, then play the 12th fret. if the note is sharper than the 'monic, then take the saddle away from the neck (toward the bridge) and vice versa.
so do i need to lower the whole nut by filing along the bottom, or should i file each slot individually? does this really make the difference? cheers, steve w

File each slot exactly as theodie said.

[theodie]

cheers guys. i am extremely fussy when it comes to intonation, but not fussy enough to get a fender! i read somewhere that you play harmonics at the 12th fret, then play the 12th fret. if the note is sharper than the 'monic, then take the saddle away from the neck (toward the bridge) and vice versa.
so do i need to lower the whole nut by filing along the bottom, or should i file each slot individually? does this really make the difference? cheers, steve w

This method would work to intonate a guitar if you played all harmonics and no fretted notes!!!! Play the note open and make sure it is in tune. Then play the string fretted at the 12 fret with your normal touch. Adjust it until they match. If its flat, screw the saddle closer to the nut, if its sharp, move the saddle away from the nut. Re-tune that string and keep doing it until its right.

BTW, is your action high at the nut???? You file each slot one at a time until that string is as a satisfactory action that you like. When you file, file the slot at an angle pointing the file downward twords the headstock! This is a MUST!

[WhoFan]

oneday at the local repair shop i was talking to the techs and they showed me some older ultra cheap strats that the bridges were not in the right spot for the scale length.. And the fret slots were not cut right... oddly you could see a few frets were on a slight angle and some had odd spacing between the frets.... FIRE WOOD

[watersbluebird]

thanks again for the replies. the cheapo that i have was only slightly out of intonation. on the harmonics issue, the 12th fret harmonic is exactly the same tuning (octave higher of course) than the open string. so this has no bearing on the setup. i've had a go at sanding the slots and i am amazed at the results. getting the angle is a bit tricky, so i've ordered a set of needle files from maplin. perhaps i'll be an expert on this subject one day! the guitar is not as bad as firewood. i just sold one of those. anyway, if a guitar stays in tune, has spot on intonation, has a low action with no fret buzz, and sounds decent, what else really matters? cheers.

[theodie]

thanks again for the replies. the cheapo that i have was only slightly out of intonation. on the harmonics issue, the 12th fret harmonic is exactly the same tuning (octave higher of course) than the open string. so this has no bearing on the setup. i've had a go at sanding the slots and i am amazed at the results. getting the angle is a bit tricky, so i've ordered a set of needle files from maplin. perhaps i'll be an expert on this subject one day! the guitar is not as bad as firewood. i just sold one of those. anyway, if a guitar stays in tune, has spot on intonation, has a low action with no fret buzz, and sounds decent, what else really matters? cheers.

It has no bearing......you bet your A$$ it does. I am just a luthier, what do I know???? Get a good tuner and hit the harmonic and hit the string fretted at the 12th. There will be a big difference! You play in fretted notes not harmonics, there is a difference and wouldnt you want it intonated in fretted notes since that is what you play? Unless you play nothing but open strings and harmonics.

Hey, you can do it anyway you want, its your guitar. You ask for advice and I give you the "correct" way to do it but, if you want it to be wrong and not sound as good as it could, that is your business I suppose. Good luck and my advice is finished for this topic!

[WhoFan]

the way the techs at the local shop taught me to intonate guitars on the strobe tuner was to pluck open strings and then checking intonation fretted at the 12th fret... they said not to use harmonics.... i see some tech use Harmonics and some don't..... Man i hated the strobe. Too sensitive....

[watersbluebird]

theodie take it easy. a bit too belligerent for my liking. i'm thankful for your advice, i agree, you know more than me. all i'm saying is i can tell when two notes are the same. being a luthier makes no difference on this point. every harmonic on my guitar is exactly one octave higher than open. therefore, when i fret the 12th, i can hear if it's higher or lower than the harmonic, and hence, whether it's higher or lower than open. there is no difference because they are the same pitch! my tuner gives me the same info. the 12th harmonic is exactly the same pitch as open. so what difference can it make? if i get the 12th fret in tune with the 12th harmonic, then it must be the same as open. in future, to avoid such an argument, i will fret the 12th and compare it with open. thanks again for the advice on nut slots. it worked a treat.

[theodie]

theodie take it easy. a bit too belligerent for my liking. i'm thankful for your advice, i agree, you know more than me. all i'm saying is i can tell when two notes are the same. being a luthier makes no difference on this point. every harmonic on my guitar is exactly one octave higher than open. therefore, when i fret the 12th, i can hear if it's higher or lower than the harmonic, and hence, whether it's higher or lower than open. there is no difference because they are the same pitch! my tuner gives me the same info. the 12th harmonic is exactly the same pitch as open. so what difference can it make? if i get the 12th fret in tune with the 12th harmonic, then it must be the same as open. in future, to avoid such an argument, i will fret the 12th and compare it with open. thanks again for the advice on nut slots. it worked a treat.

The harmonic method will read sharp that is, if you have a quality tuner. I use a peterson strobe. This is also according to Dan Erlewine and also the other tech/luthiers on this board.

Yes, being a luthier makes a difference. Being a luthier I must know how to do the simple task of checking and setting intonation correctly. If I cant do a simple task like that correctly, I have no business doing what I do.

[appar111]

i bought a cheap strat from flea-bay. intonation was way out. so i thought i'd move the trem bridge back a little bit. when notes were fretted, those near the nut were very sharp. now that i've moved the bridge back, the 12th frets are bang in tune, but those near the nut are still a tiny bit sharp. is there a way to sort out these problem notes?
please no replies saying get a fender etc. this is what i have. period as you guys over the pond might say.

How did you move the bridge back?

[watersbluebird]

umm, i unscrewed the bridge and placed it about 5mm back further. no extra routing was required thankfully.
theodie, can't any hack use a tuner? don't people other than luthiers have good ears? sorry, i just love provocation!

[theodie]

umm, i unscrewed the bridge and placed it about 5mm back further. no extra routing was required thankfully.
theodie, can't any hack use a tuner? don't people other than luthiers have good ears? sorry, i just love provocation!

Yeah, any hack can use a tuner but, only a hack uses a harmonic to set intonation. You saying "dont people other than luthiers have good ears"? Yes, I suppose they do but, a tuner is the best method and most accurate to use. I am sure most hacks even know that.

Do it whatever way you want. I dont care its your guitar and I am not the one hearing it so, I could care less if it sounds like crap. You asked how to fix intonation, I gave good solutions on how to do it correctly. If you dont really want to do it properly then, why did you even ask the question on how to fix your intonation??????? That makes zero sense!

Do what you want, I dont care anymore. I am out of this thread. Later noob.

[CGord]

I actually read something somewhere where they recommended all three steps (open, 12th harmonic, & fretted @ 12th). I tried that & couldn't get the harmonic quite dialed in, but I figured the hell with it, as long as the fretted note was close. You can change the pitch just by changing your fingering pressure, so "close" seemed good enough to me. As a guitarist I used to play with would say, "close enough for rock n roll"!