"Fundies say the darndest things!"

[firebirdV]

I think the general consensus is that, with or without the explanation of evolution for the development of life, there is still no scientific answer for the ORIGIN of life, so the argument of Creationism versus Evolutionism can only take place after that point - whether or not God created all creatures pretty much as they are, or SOMETHING caused life to happen to a single-cell organism and time and probability took over from there.

In THIS sense, there is virtually no difference between evolution and creationism in terms of scientific validity, because they are both fundamentally based on the given existence of life in the first place, for which we have no scientific explanation.

Is this right?

I disagree. Creationism has essentially no scientific validity because it has no empirical or observable data, it's more generally based off of a religious text or religious stories. Furthermore, there is a huge difference between saying that life began in one form millions of years ago and eventually evolved to its current state and saying that life was created as it is a few thousand years ago. I'm sure there are ways they could be more fundamentally different, but I don't care to think up an example now.

[firebirdV]

I'm glad I did decide to refresh my memory a little on the evolution and the origin of life religion(s). I just found out that "Abiogenesis" (the spontaneous generation of life from non-life) is not a theory, it's a hypothesis, which is even lower than the lowly theory. Wow the level of faith necessary to be an atheist is truly impressive, much higher than the amount of faith required to be an evolutionist that believes God created simple lifeforms and allowed them to evolve, although that also requires a lot of faith. But I won't deny anyone their religious beliefs whether it be Atheism, Creation with Evolution, Creation Without Evolution, but i will challenge anyone who says their religion is fact and my religion is fiction until they can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that their version is fact, not just their "opinion" that it's fact.

First off, I'd appreciate it if you would stop being an obvious troll. I do see sincerity in your writing which tells me that you'd like to discuss, but there is no excuse for being rude as you have consistently been and right now I don't really feel like interacting with you.

[daemon barbeque]

I'm glad I did decide to refresh my memory a little on the evolution and the origin of life religion(s). I just found out that "Abiogenesis" (the spontaneous generation of life from non-life) is not a theory, it's a hypothesis, which is even lower than the lowly theory. Wow the level of faith necessary to be an atheist is truly impressive, much higher than the amount of faith required to be an evolutionist that believes God created simple lifeforms and allowed them to evolve, although that also requires a lot of faith. But I won't deny anyone their religious beliefs whether it be Atheism, Creation with Evolution, Creation Without Evolution, but i will challenge anyone who says their religion is fact and my religion is fiction until they can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that their version is fact, not just their "opinion" that it's fact.

Sorry ,but believing in evolution has nothing to do with any religion.You still try to imply it ,but i would not work!
Many different religions have different "knowledge" of kreation..Christian belief is "not " accepted by 4 billion people!So Accepting it like the only truth is thinking that 4 billion other people are wrong.It is possible ,but it challenges the strength of god!

There are creatures and records about the "between! species.Dingo's are a very good example for the living evolution.Or you can read more about the Origins of Dogs and The Tamarctus..BTW,if not just you ,but your upcoming generation will be immune against chicken pox ,this will be evolution!!!

We do not need any faith in anything!I read ,think about it ,discuss it ,and filter it...We use to logic for it.That is not religion.
Oh BTW ,did you know how small and different horses where in the past?Or Sheep?Or Cows?
Read more ,and let us discuss when you learned ,understood something!It will be much better for all of us!

[krankguitarist]

I'm glad I did decide to refresh my memory a little on the evolution and the origin of life religion(s). I just found out that "Abiogenesis" (the spontaneous generation of life from non-life) is not a theory, it's a hypothesis, which is even lower than the lowly theory. Wow the level of faith necessary to be an atheist is truly impressive, much higher than the amount of faith required to be an evolutionist that believes God created simple lifeforms and allowed them to evolve, although that also requires a lot of faith. But I won't deny anyone their religious beliefs whether it be Atheism, Creation with Evolution, Creation Without Evolution, but i will challenge anyone who says their religion is fact and my religion is fiction until they can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that their version is fact, not just their "opinion" that it's fact.

Dude, what did I say leaving and letting MJ and LSD drive the troll from you? Now don't come back until you get it right!

[tonedeaf1]

First off, I'd appreciate it if you would stop being an obvious troll. I do see sincerity in your writing which tells me that you'd like to discuss, but there is no excuse for being rude as you have consistently been and right now I don't really feel like interacting with you.

I'm sorry, I didn't know putting forth common sense arguments that challenge the unproven religious beliefs of others was rude, especially when attacking Christian beliefs occurs regularly in this forum. And, when you couldn't or wouldn't support your theories you turned to RUDE name-calling (troll). That's the favorite tactic of liberals and the whole foundation of political correctness. PC name calling: WHAT? You don't agree with us? then you must be a (pick one) racist, sexist, fundamentalist, neanderthal, extremist, redneck, gun-nut, right-wing conservative, southern baptist, bigot, hate-monger, "troll", or worst of all (to them) a conservative white Christian male republican, who's standing in the way of "progress" with his silly, common sense arguments. I suppose it would be a lot easier, and quicker, to just call everyone here that believes in atheism or evolution a troll. But that would be rude.

[big_black]

"Fundies say the darndest things!"

[tonedeaf1]

Dude, what did I say leaving and letting MJ and LSD drive the troll from you? Now don't come back until you get it right!

Awesome comeback, you really tore my argument to shreds, I'm humbled and will prostrate myself before your superior intellect. I was also unaware of the fact that you get to decide who gets to post here, how rude of me to not follow your orders.

[firebirdV]

I'm sorry, I didn't know putting forth common sense arguments that challenge the unproven religious beliefs of others was rude, especially when attacking Christian beliefs occurs regularly in this forum. And, when you couldn't or wouldn't support your theories you turned to RUDE name-calling (troll). That's the favorite tactic of liberals and the whole foundation of political correctness. PC name calling: WHAT? You don't agree with us? then you must be a (pick one) racist, sexist, fundamentalist, neanderthal, extremist, redneck, gun-nut, right-wing conservative, southern baptist, bigot, hate-monger, "troll", or worst of all (to them) a conservative white Christian male republican, who's standing in the way of "progress" with his silly, common sense arguments. I suppose it would be a lot easier, and quicker, to just call everyone here that believes in atheism or evolution a troll. But that would be rude.

Afraid not. This is the end with our discussion, you have proven to me that you are unable to actually discuss this topic in a reasonable manner and I will waist no more time on it.

FYI, politics are banned.

[tonedeaf1]

Afraid not. This is the end with our discussion, you have proven to me that you are unable to actually discuss this topic in a reasonable manner and I will waist no more time on it.

FYI, politics are banned.

By reasonable, you mean agree with you, right? Accept your beliefs as fact even though you did next to nothing to defend them? OK I'll play by the apparently unwritten forum rules::::: You're wrong, so there.!!! And quit being a troll.

[krankguitarist]

Awesome comeback, you really tore my argument to shreds, I'm humbled and will prostrate myself before your superior intellect. I was also unaware of the fact that you get to decide who gets to post here, how rude of me to not follow your orders.

Why argue with a man who's already made it clear that he knows very little about the subject at hand, but still shows the capacity to belittle his fellow forumites with views that oppose his own?

You're a self-parody, man. Get over yourself, and come back when you want to give intelligent discourse a chance.

[flank]

"Fundies say the darndest things!"

one of the best posts ever, brilliant timing. Total ownage

[Skarekrough]

I'm sorry, I didn't know putting forth common sense arguments that challenge the unproven religious beliefs of others was rude, especially when attacking Christian beliefs occurs regularly in this forum. And, when you couldn't or wouldn't support your theories you turned to RUDE name-calling (troll). That's the favorite tactic of liberals and the whole foundation of political correctness. PC name calling: WHAT? You don't agree with us? then you must be a (pick one) racist, sexist, fundamentalist, neanderthal, extremist, redneck, gun-nut, right-wing conservative, southern baptist, bigot, hate-monger, "troll", or worst of all (to them) a conservative white Christian male republican, who's standing in the way of "progress" with his silly, common sense arguments. I suppose it would be a lot easier, and quicker, to just call everyone here that believes in atheism or evolution a troll. But that would be rude.

So....do you want the step-stool to get up on your cross to nail yourself in or should we just give you ten fingers to hoist you up there?

...and for the record I had you pegged as a troll WELL before you started heaving around so many proper nouns.

[tonedeaf1]

Why argue with a man who's already made it clear that he knows very little about the subject at hand, but still shows the capacity to belittle his fellow forumites with views that oppose his own?

You're a self-parody, man. Get over yourself, and come back when you want to give intelligent discourse a chance.

I see by that statement and the previous one that you have no qualms with the idea of trying to belittle others who disagree with you, instead of tackling the arguments, it's just easier to point a finger and call someone a self-parody and a troll. And by intellectual discourse, you mean agree with unproven theories to spare people the inconvenience of having their beliefs challenged. When people put forth their evolutionist or atheist beliefs and attack Christian belief, that's intellectual discourse, but when the tables are turned that's just being an uneducated troll? If anyone feels belittled or offended by having their unproven beliefs challenged then they should just keep it to themselves, instead of expecting everyone to just lay down and agree with them, to spare them their feelings. And I'm sure you'll respond about how my "simple-minded" arguments aren't a challenge to intellectually superior people like yourself. And oh yeah how I need to drop acid and smoke weed to gain intellectual insight. Now THAT'S intelligent. And if defending my beliefs when challenged, and then challenging the beliefs of those who challenge my beliefs makes me a troll, then I'm proud to be a troll. Oh darn, I forgot to follow the rules of intellectual discourse in this thread, so ignore everything I said above and let me summarize it properly and by the rules...........You're wrong troll, you don't know what you're talking about, so there!!

[TimmyPage]

Theres a difference between defending your beliefs and simply ignoring the other side of the argument.

Yes, it is a 'theory' of evolution.. theory - a well thought out and researched idea which is the most right thing we've come across as an explanation. And if evolution is wrong, (though I doubt the overall theory is wrong) I won't be offended at all, because it will mean that scientists have found something which is even closer to how we came to be what we are today.

Man's a bit selfish to have added the line "Created in his image" hmm? No omnipotent being I worship looks anything like man. Don't make me crack out the Aquinas on you..

[big_black]

I see by that statement and the previous one that you have no qualms with the idea of trying to belittle others who disagree with you, instead of tackling the arguments, it's just easier to point a finger and call someone a self-parody and a troll. And by intellectual discourse, you mean agree with unproven theories to spare people the inconvenience of having their beliefs challenged. When people put forth their evolutionist or atheist beliefs and attack Christian belief, that's intellectual discourse, but when the tables are turned that's just being an uneducated troll? If anyone feels belittled or offended by having their unproven beliefs challenged then they should just keep it to themselves, instead of expecting everyone to just lay down and agree with them, to spare them their feelings. And I'm sure you'll respond about how my "simple-minded" arguments aren't a challenge to intellectually superior people like yourself. And oh yeah how I need to drop acid and smoke weed to gain intellectual insight. Now THAT'S intelligent. And if defending my beliefs when challenged, and then challenging the beliefs of those who challenge my beliefs makes me a troll, then I'm proud to be a troll. Oh darn, I forgot to follow the rules of intellectual discourse in this thread, so ignore everything I said above and let me summarize it properly and by the rules...........You're wrong troll, you don't know what you're talking about, so there!!

Do you have an intellectual basis to share about your belief in Creationism? If so, you haven't shown it. You seem to be content insulting people and crying when they come back at you.

You sound like a broken record.

Grow a set.

[tonedeaf1]

Wow, you expressed your opinion without calling me any names. I'm impressed. Thank you.

[TimmyPage]

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

So, an omnipotent being popping in reality is more likely than the big bang? (by your definition of the big bang).

[Frankly]

Thank you.

No plagarism or copyright infringement, please. My lawyers will be in touch.

Thank you. (Copyright MMVI)

[tonedeaf1]

I don't insult people, if people are insulted by having their beliefs challenged, then that's on them. I don't cry, when challenged I counter-challenge and defend. Grow a set? I'm standing fast in what is degenerating into an "intellectual" bout of name calling, although I myself will refrain from it, and be amused by it. Broken record? Yeah I guess I keep repeating some things when the only challenge to them is "you don't know what you're talking about", "you're wrong", "you're a troll" etc.

[tonedeaf1]

No plagarism or copyright infringement, please. My lawyers will be in touch.

Thank you. (Copyright MMVI)

Sorry I was unaware of that. Is just a plain "thanks" acceptable?