SH-5 a bit too harsh...C8?

[Lewguitar]

Originally Posted by Oceano

I literally laughed out loud so hard when I read that lol.

But I totally understand what you're saying and agree with you 100%. It would be really interesting to really hear what some people on this forum really sound like

As far as the pickup part goes I'm kind of just into tweaking like everything right now in a sort of experimental stage so that I can learn as much as I can about a lot of the different things about electric guitars and pickups in general. I do agree that magnet swapping and pot changing often get recommended too much here when in reality someone probably just needs to turn down their treble knob (which i have already done just so you know)

I really just want to know what I can expect from swapping out the ceramic for an A8.

I've never heard an Alnico 8 Custom. But I think you should try it.

One thing Bluesman and I do agree on is that alnico magnets have a little more of an organic quality to them. Organic is just a word - but when I use it I mean a more natural, more 3 dimensional quality - like life itself, as opposed to the "life" of a robot or computer.

But words can't transmit a sound. You just have to take a bite and see for yourself what something tastes like and if it's going to work for you.

Thanks for being so cool about this little rant!

What kind of amp and speakers do you play through, BTW?

Lew

[GoDrex]

For me the A8 made the pickup less harsh, and more even volume wise - as in all the strings seemed really equal. Great clarity and power. Sounded better clean. I think of it as a very modern sound. For instance: I felt like I could get a very good AC/DC sound with a Custom and especially a C5, but not as much with the C8. I liked it for a little while, but I felt like there were less dynamics - meaning the volume seemed the same no matter how hard or soft I would pick. The sound is very HI-FI. I found it to be an improvement in some ways over the Custom with the ceramic, but in the end I went back to pickups with A5 and A2 magnets, because I prefer the tone more. I do use an A8 in a Full Shred though because it makes the tone thicker and tightens up the low end.

[Lewguitar]

Originally Posted by GoDrex

For me the A8 made the pickup less harsh, and more even volume wise - as in all the strings seemed really equal. Great clarity and power. Sounded better clean. I think of it as a very modern sound. For instance: I felt like I could get a very good AC/DC sound with a Custom and especially a C5, but not as much with the C8. I liked it for a little while, but I felt like there were less dynamics - meaning the volume seemed the same no matter how hard or soft I would pick. The sound is very HI-FI. I found it to be an improvement in some ways over the Custom with the ceramic, but in the end I went back to pickups with A5 and A2 magnets, because I prefer the tone more. I do use an A8 in a Full Shred though because it makes the tone thicker and tightens up the low end.

I'm an alnico 2 and 5 guy as well. That's just the sound I hear in my head. Reminds me of the music I grew up with and the vintage guitars I used to own more than anything else.

[Oceano]

Thanks for being so cool about this little rant!

No worries I don't really get offended or anything. I know you meant well

What kind of amp and speakers do you play through, BTW?

These days I play through a Vox VT50 because I'm back and forth between living at home with my parents and living in an apartment/dorm when I'm at school (neither of which allow me to play very loud). It still has the stock 12" speaker in that I think sounds pretty good. Since I only play with a band two or three times a month I think that its a great compromise between power and practicality (mostly because it still sounds good at low volumes).

[Lewguitar]

Originally Posted by Oceano

These days I play through a Vox VT50 because I'm back and forth between living at home with my parents and living in an apartment/dorm when I'm at school (neither of which allow me to play very loud). It still has the stock 12" speaker in that I think sounds pretty good. Since I only play with a band two or three times a month I think that its a great compromise between power and practicality (mostly because it still sounds good at low volumes).

I've never played through one of those. But I have owned an AC-30 and with the Alnico Blue speakers it was perhaps the best lead tone I've ever gotten - and at the same time extremely loud and bright. (And it was not the fault of the pickup! ) You might have an entirely different beast on your hands though...

[Oceano]

It really is. Its a modeling amp with a tube in the preamp to warm things up a bit so it doesn't sound like a line 6. A lot of people like them. I mostly use the Marshall and Vox models because they work for the sound I like. They both have a bit of that British midrange which somewhat helps create a bit of that "harshness" that is difficult to EQ out without making my tone on the muddy side.

Like I said though I really like the Custom the way it is. That slight bit of "harshness" is the only thing that occasionally bothers me, but other times I like for stuff like metal and harder genres.

[blueman335]

Originally Posted by Lewguitar

One thing Bluesman and I do agree on is that alnico magnets have a little more of an organic quality to them. Organic is just a word - but when I use it I mean a more natural, more 3 dimensional quality - like life itself, as opposed to the "life" of a robot or computer.

As far as what we hear the tone of the Custom to be like, think of it like this: Lew & I are both Michigan boys. I'm in Florida now, he's in Colorado. After a winter there, to me it would seem like a miserable, sub-arctic climate suitable only for eskimos and polar bears. On the other hand, after a summer in Florida, Lew might well assume that the entire state is a sweltering, bug-infested swamp suitable only for mosquitoes and alligators. What's a sensible climate depends on your tastes. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for the other.

[Oceano]

Originally Posted by blueman335

As far as what we hear the tone of the Custom to be like, think of it like this: Lew & I are both Michigan boys. I'm in Florida now, he's in Colorado. After a winter there, to me it would seem like a miserable, sub-arctic climate suitable only for eskimos and polar bears. On the other hand, after a summer in Florida, Lew might well assume that the entire state is a sweltering, bug-infested swamp suitable only for mosquitoes and alligators. What's a sensible climate depends on your tastes. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for the other.

I get that lol. My question hasn't really been answered too well. Should I switch to 300K pots or would the A8 give me the rounded highs I'm looking for.

Sry if I'm a little slow or something.

[korovamilkdud]

For me, I tried an Alinico 4 in a Custom and it was pretty cool. You get the same overall character (PAF on 'roids), but with a slight drop in output and a bit more warmth. Might be worth a shot.

[blueman335]

Originally Posted by Oceano

I get that lol. My question hasn't really been answered too well. Should I switch to 300K pots or would the A8 give me the rounded highs I'm looking for.

Either one. A magnet swap doesn't involve soldering unless you have a cover on it. I personally would try an A8 or A4. 250K/300K might work for you too. All of these options take off some treble and give a different feel and EQ.

[Oceano]

Originally Posted by blueman335

Either one. A magnet swap doesn't involve soldering unless you have a cover on it. I personally would try an A8 or A4. 250K/300K might work for you too. All of these options take off some treble and give a different feel and EQ.

Thanks blueman and everyone else for their insight. I think I have an A8 lying around somewhere so I'll probably try that first as I don't have any spare pots at the moment. The idea of the A4 sounds good too so maybe I'll try that some time too

[uOpt]

Originally Posted by Oceano

I think you may have misunderstood. I like the Custom (which is what I have I would just like to do a little bit of tweaking to it, not completely buy a new pickup

But the C8 will definitely sound harsher.

As Lew said, in general the DC in a fitting guitar is not harsh. On the contrary, when playing harder it compresses and get softer, where A5 and A8 would just get louder.

The DC can sound what I call "cold" on light play such as fingerpicking.

I also have to ask: when playing other guitars through your rig, does it sound warm enough?

Overall, my mental imagine at this point is - for example - you playing cleans through a solid state amp with - possibly - a cheap speaker. That's gonna sound harsh but the solution isn't a new pickup.

[GoDrex]

Originally Posted by uOpt

But the C8 will definitely sound harsher.

disagree - whatever it is about ceramic that people call "harsh" is gone with the A8

[Lewguitar]

Originally Posted by uOpt

As Lew said, in general the DC in a fitting guitar is not harsh. On the contrary, when playing harder it compresses and get softer, where A5 and A8 would just get louder.

The DC can sound what I call "cold" on light play such as fingerpicking.

Overall, my mental imagine at this point is - for example - you playing cleans through a solid state amp with - possibly - a cheap speaker. That's gonna sound harsh but the solution isn't a new pickup.

That's just where we started - but at least we got the truth out!

I have a Custom in a rosewood fingerboard Strat along with a Pearly Gates neck. The guitar is not actually mine any longer - I gave it to my buddy AJ. I also sold my Big Apple Strat recently and it had a Jazz neck and Custom bridge.

The Custom just never sounded harsh in either guitar. But I can dig the "cold" thing. I don't really hear it being cold but I know what you mean.

The Custom, IMO, produces a tone which for whatever reason seems a little less responsive to shaping the tone with my pick and hands than, say, alnico 2.

For example, Alnico 2 seems the most responsive to me. Almost rubbery and elastic depending on the amp. Through a class A cathode biased amp the response is very malleable. I can squeeze the notes out like toothpaste from a tube through my tweed Princeton. It's my favorite magnet in a humbucker.

And ceramic seems to produce a tone that is less malleable than alnico 2. Less "organic" you might say.

Also, and this is pretty vague I know, I think ceramic magnet humbuckers have a little less "personality" than alnico 2 humbuckers. But that's for sure going to mean something different to everyone!

Lew

[Oceano]

But the C8 will definitely sound harsher.

As Lew said, in general the DC in a fitting guitar is not harsh. On the contrary, when playing harder it compresses and get softer, where A5 and A8 would just get louder.

The DC can sound what I call "cold" on light play such as fingerpicking.

I also have to ask: when playing other guitars through your rig, does it sound warm enough?

Overall, my mental imagine at this point is - for example - you playing cleans through a solid state amp with - possibly - a cheap speaker. That's gonna sound harsh but the solution isn't a new pickup.

1. its not really a solid state amp. 2. it sounds more than warm enough when i want it to. 3. I've heard that alnico 8 is basically like the the hybrid baby of all the things I like about ceramic magnet with the warmth and dynamics of an alnico magnet so that wouldn't really make it louder (unless I wanted it to be)

It seems I'm talking about what Lew was saying about "malleability" (made up a word just go with it). I know it wouldn't be anywhere near to the same extent as an A2, but likely more than a ceramic.

[blueman335]

Originally Posted by Lewguitar

The Custom just never sounded harsh in either guitar. But I can dig the "cold" thing. I don't really hear it being cold but I know what you mean.

The Custom, IMO, produces a tone which for whatever reason seems a little less responsive to shaping the tone with my pick and hands than, say, alnico 2.

For example, Alnico 2 seems the most responsive to me. Almost rubbery and elastic depending on the amp. Through a class A cathode biased amp the response is very malleable. I can squeeze the notes out like toothpaste from a tube through my tweed Princeton. It's my favorite magnet in a humbucker.

And ceramic seems to produce a tone that is less malleable than alnico 2. Less "organic" you might say.

Also, and this is pretty vague I know, I think ceramic magnet humbuckers have a little less "personality" than alnico 2 humbuckers. But that's for sure going to mean something different to everyone!

Lew

+1. Maybe we're using different words to describe similar things. Alnicos, and most of all A2's, have a flavoring and response that ceramics can't duplicate. Some of us are used to that, and have a hard time adjusting our style to ceramics, at least in the bridge slot. Maybe alnicos are the 'tube amps' of the magnet world, and ceramics are more like the solid states. Maybe the harsh & cold tones we hear is really just the the lack of alnico coloring we've gotten used to.