Gibson went bankrupt?

[astrozombie]

Originally Posted by blueman335

They're producing luxury items, not necessities; that's highly expendable.

this is a crucial point.

the same could happen to any guitar company.
i dont think fender is in so much trouble simply because they own more companies.

[blueman335]

Originally Posted by astrozombie

this is a crucial point.

the same could happen to any guitar company.
i dont think fender is in so much trouble simply because they own more companies.

It's a combination of expenses, money tied up in inventory, labor unions, cash flow, changes in the market, bad debts, etc. A few things happening at once can sink any company, guitar or otherwise. Gibson & Fender aren't immune. Under-performing subsidiaries can drag a company down too, sucking up resources, and the parent company might take a big loss by selling them off, depends on how the deal's structured. If a subsidiary is struggling, it's not the best advertisement to get top dollar for selling it. The names might live on, but it doesn't do us any good if somone buys up the Gibson or Fender names & then puts out low quality products.

[Empty Pockets]

Originally Posted by astrozombie

you have a good point Empty Pockets.

i gotta say though, a highway 1 tele seems like more guitar than an SG faded.

i play an sg faded all the time, my bud has one, and i almost laid down the cash for one.

dont get me wrong, i love my epi 333 and gibson V.

i just think gibson is a tad too expensive.

like they said, **** it, were gibson. we might lose some sales but a group of the population will always buy.


and as for prs, yeah theyre ****ing expensive, but tell me it isnt a fine guitar.

A highway 1 Tele is arguably much less 'bang for buck' just because it's 100% machine-made and bolted together...the set neck process requires more time and skill in a factory setting than bolt neck.

PRS are fine guitars if you like your guitars to be wrapped in plastic and have no soul.

[ksmith63]

Originally Posted by blueman335

Earth to ksmith: We just watched what was once the world's largest corporation, crawl on it's knees begging the government for money to keep them from going under. Gibson at their peak had nowhere near the financial strength or security GM once had, and they certainly wouldn't get any bail out money. Don't kid yourself that Gibson couldn't go belly up & be a thing of the past. If they get into cash flow trouble (as many companies have these days), the vast majority of the public would rather let them go under than give them public assitance. They're producing luxury items, not necessities; that's highly expendable.

As someone who worked as a parts supplier for GM: GIBSON'S QUALITY CONTROL IS MUCH MUCH BETTER. The biggest surprise about GM going under was that it took this long to happen.

Gibson won't need the government to bail them out. Some (most likely foreign) company will buy them if anything happens. Might not be the same company/products but the name will live forever. Maybe CBS will buy them.....

Edit: The public obviously has no say when it comes to bailing a company out.

[astrozombie]

empty, im not saying youre wrong.
im just supporting my point.

i praise fender and gibson alike for making world class guitars.
IMHO, a highway 1 tele just *feels* like a nicer guitar than a satin finish gibson.

i ****ing hate that finish, i swear id rather save up and the regular special instead of the faded SG.

[blueman335]

Originally Posted by ksmith63

Gibson won't need the government to bail them out. Some (most likely foreign) company will buy them if anything happens. Might not be the same company/products but the name will live forever.

Edit: The public obviously has no say when it comes to bailing a company out.

What if a foreign company wound up buying Gibson, and China has a lot of money to spend. They could buy it and make Gibsons in China! Stranger things have happened.

The public didn't have much say in the whirlwind of the previous bailouts, but after seeing how it was mismanaged & wasted, the nation's mood is very different now, and sympathy for big corporations is pretty much gone. It's an angry nation that would love to see some companies fail and suffer like the public has. The first companies ruined it for everyone else.

[GuitarCrazyo]

Hey guys. Im after a hardcase of some description capable of housing a Gibson grabber in the snuggest manner possible. Anyone got any ideas? I have rectangle hardcases for my fenders but the old dear is a bit to wide to fit into one and her slim body means an unforgivabe ammount of pressure is put on the neck. Am I looking at a custom build here or is there a miraculous answer to my problem? Let me know

[beandip]

Originally Posted by GuitarCrazyo

Hey guys. Im after a hardcase of some description capable of housing a Gibson grabber in the snuggest manner possible. Anyone got any ideas? I have rectangle hardcases for my fenders but the old dear is a bit to wide to fit into one and her slim body means an unforgivabe ammount of pressure is put on the neck. Am I looking at a custom build here or is there a miraculous answer to my problem? Let me know

Well, first, instead of hijacking a thread you could start your own.

Ebay, craigslist, and several case makers make cases to fit a Grabber bass. You might wanna check that out.

Otherwise, that's about it.

[Proverb-Man]

Originally Posted by Empty Pockets

The Zoot Suit is not a stupid idea. It IS a straightforward guitar worth the money. It's like a thousand bucks and it's a real Gibson that is impossible to warp or break the neck on -- meaning it's gonna last these next 50 years AT LEAST...

I seriously doubt they are pressing the birch-ply laminate themselves.

It's really funny to talk **** on Gibson for their price points, when Fender needlessly raised their prices 20% across the board last year and PRS only start getting good around the $2000 mark.

It's just a business...it costs money to build guitars and it costs more money the bigger your company is...everybody in the country is on hard times right now, and GGC is one of them...but to wish or hope that they go bankrupt or out of business means you want to see one of America's oldest and most respected companies fail and all their employees without jobs. Why? Just cuz you can't afford a $6000 limited edition collector's reissue?

Please. If you don't like their guitars, that's one thing, but until you've run your own successful guitar manufacturing business i don't really think you have any experience to say what things should cost or how they should do business.

I think Gibson does a good job of doing what they're known for (the vintage-correct guitars) while still trying to innovate and improve the guitar game. A lot of people talked crap on the Robot tuners without even trying them...I've spent a lot of time with the ones at my shop and it is a **** COOL system to have on a guitar...it works really well and makes PLAYING easier because you're not constantly checking your tuning...

Same with the Zoot Suits...they directly addressed one of the biggest problems EVERY guitar manufacturer has...warped or damaged necks...then they took a lead from Martin and tried using birch-ply laminate. The guitars sound and feel great and are pretty much indestructible...if a small independant company like Composite Electrics had made it, y'all would've thought it was this hip new idea but Gibson did it so it's stupid and destined to fail.

Guess that's why all the Robots at my shop sold out in less than a week and we can't even keep Zoot Suits in stock because young kids who down-tune love the fact that they can't bend the neck on 'em.

After a year at that shop, i've seen probably 50 Gibsons come and go through my doors. I've sold three Paul Reed Smiths and still have the same 6 plastic-wrapped no-tone $3,600 chunks of mahagony on the wall that were there when i dropped off my application. I spend at least nine hours a day, every day, in a place with hundreds of guitars, and the Gibsons from the custom shop are almost always the best-built and best-sounding in the building.

If we lost Gibson, we'd be losing a huge part of guitar culture in general.

I am sorry but Gibson's quality stuff is just as high priced as PRS and imo is FAR less consistent. Given PRS's tone doesn't agree with everyone (I myself do not own one because the price doesn't match the tone imo) but at least there instruments consistently sound like THEIR instruments and do not have massive problems out of the factory with the neck, frets, electronics, bridge etc. etc. etc. like Gibson does. I am usually the last one to get on my soapbox about this because I LOVE the sound of a good LP, but I have not been able to find one for less then 3000 anywhere, so I have to disagree with you fervently on every point.

-J

[open]

[QUOTE=
PRS are fine guitars if you like your guitars to be wrapped in plastic and have no soul.[/QUOTE]


Subjectively speaking i like my plastic wrapped no soul PRS.Just a question of taste.

[blueman335]

Originally Posted by Proverb-Man

I am sorry but Gibson's quality stuff is just as high priced as PRS and imo is FAR less consistent. Given PRS's tone doesn't agree with everyone (I myself do not own one because the price doesn't match the tone imo) but at least there instruments consistently sound like THEIR instruments and do not have massive problems out of the factory with the neck, frets, electronics, bridge etc. etc. etc. like Gibson does. I am usually the last one to get on my soapbox about this because I LOVE the sound of a good LP, but I have not been able to find one for less then 3000 anywhere, so I have to disagree with you fervently on every point.

-J

+1. I also love the sound of Gibsons, and appreciate the huge contributions they've made to music over the years, but we should look at what the company is today, as everyone from their 'golden age' is long gone. Gibson could sell their guitars for half the price and still make a profit, and move many more units, which would increase total profit dollars. They intentionally chose not to be the working man's guitar, but have trouble keeping their quality in line with their pricing. This is a self-induced problem.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by Chas

This is an easy one. The problem people have with Gibson is just about everyone wants one but can't afford one. I am in this category as I have 4 kids. Are they over priced? Yes, but have you checked the prices of Fender's Blues Jr's as of late? But don't hope that this iconic American company goes belly up. There has been too much of that as of late. Can you say GM?

Not really. I have a Standard. It took about 2hrs to run the racks to find one that was built right and that is pretty typical of my experience over the years with Gibson. Their pricing is questionable. Their ethics are just sad. The guitars are hit or miss.

The argument about what sells doesn't really hold a lot of water with me. A salesman with any skill at all can steer the 80% who aren't sure what they want to anything they choose to. To then compare sales to other lines as a justification of the favored lines greatness is really not a true assessment.

EP is entitled to his opinion. I don't happen to share it.

[KeeperOS]

Y' know, I find it interesting that whenever there's a thread that's even remotely related to Gibson it inadvertently ends up with people questioning their QC and/or price (more often than not with the one in relation to the other) and other people passionately defending them (usually with the names PRS and/or Fender coming into play).

Aren't you guys starting to see a pattern here?

[tc]

Originally Posted by El CHupacabra

^ Hey did you hear Stedman walked out on Orpah again??


Just remember, buy USA! Keep our own economy going! Screw the Japanese/Chinese/Koreans and their cheap copies!

Lol, no I didn't and sure as hell don't give a ****.

About the second part, I usually just don't say anything when I read a comment I disagree with, but that's just a prejudiced and rather stupid comment, and the only reason why I mention it is because you seem to be a really smart guy who has his sh!t together, something most people our ages definitely don't. Oh and I'm not including myself in your category...I'm including myself in the "inmature" and "unsmart" mass...we have more fun!

Unless it was a joke. Sometimes you just can't tell over the internet whether someons's dead serious or just being sarcastic.

[TattooedCarrot]

Originally Posted by tc

Unless it was a joke. Sometimes you just can't tell over the internet whether someons's dead serious or just being sarcastic.

So you feel that Americans buying American products in order to financially support American businesses is somehow prejudiced? Are you inferring racism? f so, that's just more of the political correctness cr@p that's killing our culture.

[blueman335]

Originally Posted by TattooedCarrot

So you feel that Americans buying American products in order to financially support American businesses is somehow prejudiced? Are you inferring racism? f so, that's just more of the political correctness cr@p that's killing our culture.

This is getting way off track & a little heated. This isn't the place to debate politics. Let's get back on topic.

[Jessie Sammler]

I like American guitars because I like the guitars. Gibson, Fender, Jackson, Martin. There's nothing political, economical, or racial about it. Even if I bought American guitars just to support American companies, I wouldn't care about the ethnicity of the people building them -- and I don't.

[tc]

Originally Posted by TattooedCarrot

So you feel that Americans buying American products in order to financially support American businesses is somehow prejudiced? Are you inferring racism? f so, that's just more of the political correctness cr@p that's killing our culture.

Oh ho here comes the cavalry!

Chill for a second here.

No I did not infer racism. By prejudiced I meant that a lot of people believe that any product from the orient has to be low quality.

I need to buy you a beer and see if you can chill out a bit TC.

Originally Posted by blueman335

This is getting way off track & a little heated. This isn't the place to debate politics. Let's get back on topic.

The voice of reason ladies and gentlemen.

[Jessie Sammler]

You're bankrupt!

(To no one in particular.)

[firebirdV]

I was hoping that this would turn into a debate about the positive and negative aspects of globalization...

Oh well