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Thread: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

  1. #61
    Mojo's Minions J Moose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Quote Originally Posted by Hot _Grits View Post
    Well, as you asked...

    When I asked for 'controversial', I was think less 'vibrator in vocal booth' (great story, though), and more 'dirty tricks/personnel replacement used to make a record sound good'

    For example, i know of a successful local band that have a rep for being kickass live, but when they hit the studio, they literally record the guitars one chord at a time...
    I'm not so much into the "hired gun" thing if it can be avoided... though, about two years ago I ended up learning and replacing 70% of the guitar on a record for various reasons. It ended up being shelved by the label for other, but somewhat related reasons like the drummer had quit and they weren't the same band they were when signed... Anyway, due to non-disclosures, that's not the kind of thing that anyone can talk about, not even behind closed doors... But you might be surprised at how many of your favorite musicians didn't/haven't ever played on their hit records...

    I'm not into the "one chord at a time" method either and don't make those kinds of records. Don't know how to really... I had a friend who worked with Dream Theater... the stories he had from that... oh man!

    Always in the back of my mind is the artists definition point... does what we're getting sound like the artist is it pulling them in a different direction? If there's no keyboard player in the band I'm not about to suggest that we add 'em to every song! Of course, maybe the artist wants to explore new directions but it's not something I automatically push...

    I prefer to get everyone tracking at the same time, as live as possible... maybe to a click, maybe not. Really capture the energy and nuances that come with that feel before overdubbing and building the rest of it. Sometimes we get on the bonus plan and someone puts down a great solo or parts that don't need to be redone...

    Of course, modern rock & recording techniques dictate that you need to record one band member at a time, always on a grid, and make sure it's sterile and "perfect" before moving onto the next part...



    Could you imagine if all those Zep records were cut on a grid? How about AC/DC? Sad thing is, a band that sounds like that today would get shooed away from major labels & rock radio.

    Shoot from the hip... go with the gut. Try not to get too cerebral because that's NOT what music/art is about.

    I dunno if that answered your question or not...

    Gotta get back to this mix...
    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    mooseaudio.bandcamp.com

    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

  2. #62
    Buttery Toneologist Hot _Grits's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Quote Originally Posted by J Moose View Post
    I'm not so much into the "hired gun" thing if it can be avoided... though, about two years ago I ended up learning and replacing 70% of the guitar on a record for various reasons. It ended up being shelved by the label for other, but somewhat related reasons like the drummer had quit and they weren't the same band they were when signed... Anyway, due to non-disclosures, that's not the kind of thing that anyone can talk about, not even behind closed doors... But you might be surprised at how many of your favorite musicians didn't/haven't ever played on their hit records...

    I'm not into the "one chord at a time" method either and don't make those kinds of records. Don't know how to really... I had a friend who worked with Dream Theater... the stories he had from that... oh man!

    Always in the back of my mind is the artists definition point... does what we're getting sound like the artist is it pulling them in a different direction? If there's no keyboard player in the band I'm not about to suggest that we add 'em to every song! Of course, maybe the artist wants to explore new directions but it's not something I automatically push...

    I prefer to get everyone tracking at the same time, as live as possible... maybe to a click, maybe not. Really capture the energy and nuances that come with that feel before overdubbing and building the rest of it. Sometimes we get on the bonus plan and someone puts down a great solo or parts that don't need to be redone...

    Of course, modern rock & recording techniques dictate that you need to record one band member at a time, always on a grid, and make sure it's sterile and "perfect" before moving onto the next part...



    Could you imagine if all those Zep records were cut on a grid? How about AC/DC? Sad thing is, a band that sounds like that today would get shooed away from major labels & rock radio.

    Shoot from the hip... go with the gut. Try not to get too cerebral because that's NOT what music/art is about.

    I dunno if that answered your question or not...

    Gotta get back to this mix...
    Sure it did.

    I'm about to do some live tracking with my rock band, and I tell them similar things: don't be surprised if radio programmers and labels don't think it sounds right. But in the end, we sound like we sound, and live is best for getting the feel.

    Modern rock production generally makes my toes crawl. Most of the stuff I hear on radio sounds like it has been tweezed within an inch of it's life. And it really shows when you see those bands live.

    You mentioned horns: what's your mic/room setup and positioning for recording horns as a section?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly View Post
    ...but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Quote Originally Posted by J Moose View Post
    Trey Anastasio and/or Phish would be rad too. I have been to The Barn.
    What's it like there?
    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalSix View Post
    I am just jug the merlot

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    GumbyLoveologist wahwah's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    I must admit that I haven't been following The Well, but this J Moose edition was too good to miss. Very informative and entertaining, Mr Moose.

    So, my question.

    Bass....The Final Frontier. Do you have any tricks that you regularly turn to during tracking or mixing to tame the low frequency beast?




    Cheers..............................wahwah
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    Go ahead...check out my solo album @ http://geoffwells.bandcamp.com/


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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Quote Originally Posted by daemon barbeque View Post
    Hey Moose great Well bro!

    What is the biggest "artist behaviour" that turns you nutts and brings you to beat the crap out of him/her ,quit the session ,kick him/her out of the studio ,the combination of the three or some more brutal/horror movie based actions?
    A true story with some extra hot "spice" on it could make me really happy heheh
    I'm not really a violent person... not my style.

    One big thing that drives me nuts is people crunching food wrappers in the room, usually while standing right behind me! I don't care if you eat, just toss the **** thing away and don't play with it... It always sounds like digital krunchies...

    I try to maintain a strict "no-cell-phone" policy as well... nothing more then a distraction and the digital hash gets into everything when they search for the mothership connection...

    But no. Never tossed anyone out for anything of the sort. Do I look like Phil Ramone or something?! HAHA
    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

  6. #66
    Mojo's Minions J Moose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Quote Originally Posted by wahwah View Post
    I must admit that I haven't been following The Well, but this J Moose edition was too good to miss. Very informative and entertaining, Mr Moose.
    Thank you sir! I try...

    Bass....The Final Frontier. Do you have any tricks that you regularly turn to during tracking or mixing to tame the low frequency beast?

    Cheers..............................wahwah
    After getting the drums somewhat together, and the bass somewhat together... meaning everythings patched & confirmed as working, maybe sort out some phase stuff... I have the drummer and bassist play together, as a unit before diving into EQ's or anything of the sort. Otherwise I think it's too easy to make "big drums" or go down a road where individual tones don't really relate to each other.

    I always take a DI right off the bass and mic the amp... sometimes using the tried & true 421 or RE20, sometimes a 414 or 47Fet (M147 as well); but also small diaphragm condensers like an AKG460 or Earthworks omni... If the player has a pedal board I might drop a second DI on the output of that, especially if there's envelope filters and stuff. Sometimes split it to a guitar amp for punk/metal stuff.

    Being a rock guy I like a fair bit of compression on bass... 1176 is great. The old UK made Joe Meek is "a sound"... Distressors... the Atomic SqueezeBox is gnarly but expensive! I'd love to have one...

    Pultec EQ's & other inductor based designs like the Dakings are amazingly good. Maybe add a little 50-60Hz, more often then not I'll shape the low-mids around 120-300Hz to play better with the kick and maybe add snap in the upper mids... anywhere from 700-2kHz... depending on any number of factors... the bass, the player, how it's siting against the guitars...

    Lots of listening!
    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    mooseaudio.bandcamp.com

    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

  7. #67
    Gear Ho Gearjoneser's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Who are your favorite comedians and favorite comedy movies?

    What toys from your childhood would you like to have kept or re-buy just for fun?
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie Bill View Post
    I've got 60 guitars...but 49 trumpets is just...INSANITY! WTF!

  8. #68
    Vibroluxologist B Bent's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Since your first answer to my question about the Bandmaster wasn't answered correctly I'll ask again.

    When are you going to sell me your Bandmaster head?


    I get weak in the knees at the sight of a vintage Fender amp!

  9. #69
    Kyuss_Rockologist Rich_T's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    I don't really have any questions, but thanks for those great answers in respect to recording! They have been most useful!
    "I believe the truth is not told between 9 and 5." - Hunter S. Thompson

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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Yup, thanks for that J Moose. Great anecdotes!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    Welcome to the real world. Everybody wanna booooo me but I'm a fan of real pop culture!!! No disrespect but we watchin' the show at the crib right now cause...well you know...I'm not crazy y'all, I'm just real.

  11. #71
    Tone Member TUBEGASM's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Very informative! Great well!
    "......whip-crack went his whippy tail, and the beast was done."

  12. #72
    Mojo's Minions J Moose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Sorry for falling off the planet here... Wednesday was pretty haggard... I got in way past my bedtime and ended up sleeping until 3pm Thursday afternoon, still a little krispy...

    Don't get into music or any of the other "arts" unless you value not having a life and "normal" hours!

    Quote Originally Posted by VIBROLUX View Post
    Since your first answer to my question about the Bandmaster wasn't answered correctly I'll ask again.

    When are you going to sell me your Bandmaster head?

    Ehhhhhhh..?


    How about, NEVER?!?

    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    mooseaudio.bandcamp.com

    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

  13. #73
    Mojo's Minions J Moose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Quote Originally Posted by KGMESSIER View Post
    What's it like there?
    Not sure I can answer this one simply...

    Quiet. Peaceful. Spiritually "alive"... Creative...

    As the story goes... Trey owned the property and loved creating at that spot which is a mountaintop roughly an hour & change from downtown Burlington... He bought the structure from another guy in VT who was going to burn it down and had it disassembled and moved piece by piece to the hilltop where it sits now. They put in the driveway, ran power... the whole works. Took three years or so to complete before they moved any gear in?! Standing on the deck there's nothing but trees and mountains for miles around...

    The studio itself is an open space, no walls or anything like a "traditional" studio. There's a couple of odd spaces to isolate amps & lots of gobos... Nice gear; big newer API desk; 2" tape and protools, modest collection of outboard gear. No reason that a record couldn't be made there! Heating and cooling must be a small sum since the building isn't insulated.

    I'll root around for pictures... pretty sure I know which drive they're on...
    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    mooseaudio.bandcamp.com

    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

  14. #74
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Yup, thanks for that J Moose. Great anecdotes!
    Thanks to you guys for asking me stuff...

    But,HAHA

    I mean, I was expecting at LEAST one "what's the most expensive "____" that you've ever seen destroyed" or some other stuff... maybe even some guitar questions or even about Scabble or movies, whatever ...

    I'm trying to find someone else to take over and do round #14... in the meantime, ask away!
    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    mooseaudio.bandcamp.com

    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

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    Mojo's Minions J Moose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Quote Originally Posted by Gearjoneser View Post
    Who are your favorite comedians and favorite comedy movies?
    Oh man. Sam Kinison is/was one of the greatest. I love Howard Stern as well, he's even better since he went to Sirius, and I was subscriber long before he came aboard! George Carlin, Robin Williams is a madman... George Pryor may he RIP...

    I caught some of 'the Money Pit' pretty recently, always loved that one. 48 hours; the Ali G movie; Blues Brothers; the Friday films; Clerks. Lebowski. I've seen a bunch that aren't popping to mind... anything but "dumb" stuff... Can't stand Adam Sandler anymore and never liked Jim Carey much outside of the Fire Marshall Bill skits.

    Some of Spinal Tap hits a little close to home these days... but it's still great! Especially the DVD with all the outtakes & commentary! It's two whole other movies!

    What toys from your childhood would you like to have kept or re-buy just for fun?
    Legos. I love Legos. Dunno if those count though... I've been digging through boxes at my parents recently and found a lot of my old toys, most of 'em in pretty haggard shape...

    I also found a BUNCH of comic books from the early 80s when I was a wee lad...

    X-Men, GI Joes; Alf, Fantastic Four, Transformers #1-20; most in poor shape, some in decent to great shape, but a whole slew of 'em have this spot about two inches long where mom put my name on 'em in Sharpie!

    Thanks mom! At least nobody stole 'em during recess...

    Last edited by J Moose; 01-27-2008 at 10:05 PM.
    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

  16. #76
    Mojo's Minions J Moose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJohn View Post
    Boxer's or brief's?
    Usually boxers, sometimes briefs.

    Commando is another popular choice...

    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

  17. #77
    Mojo's Minions J Moose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    heh heh

    You ask, I answer!
    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    mooseaudio.bandcamp.com

    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

  18. #78
    Fuzzy. Guitars the guy who invented fire's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Here's one for ya...what are some of your favorite rrecordings to listen to...not the music but the recording itself??
    If you just read a post by The Guy Who Invented Fire please understand that opinions change, mind sets change and as players our ears mature...not to mention our needs grow and change. With that in mind, today I may or may not agree with the post you just read!

  19. #79
    Mojo's Minions J Moose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    Here's one for ya...what are some of your favorite rrecordings to listen to...not the music but the recording itself??
    That's a good one...

    For me, the music and recording are always somewhat intertwined... Not sure I could listen to "great" music with a horrible recording that gets in the way of it... thinking specifically of bootlegs or some lo-fi indie/punk.

    Anyway, some of the rekkids that continually amaze me from both standpoints... far from complete but what comes to mind;

    Rudy VanGelder from the 50's 60's... all that old jazz stuff. Sun records from the same era too... especially after visiting Sun a few years ago, standing in that room where so many defining moments were captured...

    Los Lobos ~ Colossal Head
    Soul Coughing ~ Ruby Vroom... really any of that Tchad Blake stuff is pretty interesting sonically. Mitchell Froom is on the list as well...
    Radiohead ~ Ok Computer
    Failure ~ Fantastic Planet
    Rage Against the Machine ~ first, self-titled... Absolutely ass-kicking to this day. Brutal... so dry and in'yer face.
    Hum ~ You'd Prefer an Astronaut
    Bill Evens ~ Live in Tokyo '73 CBS (?) import
    Primus ~ Seas of Cheese/Pork/Punchbowl - What to say?! HAHA
    Kings X ~ Dogman. The low end. The size. The songs. Their peak IMO. sick.
    Dr Dre ~ The Chronic
    Beatles ~ Revolver

    Alice in Chains ~ Dirt and Anthrax's "Sound of White Noise" get an honorable mention... such BIZARRE sounding records but the layering and impact is amazing.
    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

  20. #80
    Mojo's Minions J Moose's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: The Well ~ Lucky #13. Cavefish spills all

    This has been a blast but the time has come to hand the keys over the next vict.... err... lucky dog!

    Tune up & standby for Wah Wah!
    J. 'Moose' Kahrs
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    mooseaudio.bandcamp.com

    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    All you need to make a record is a mic, some tape and maybe some bad reverb...

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