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Thread: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

  1. #61
    Skarekrough
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh Naranek View Post
    I use tube gear because the stuff I play - classic rock, blues-rock, prog rock, a little 80's metal, sounds best through tube gear, or a good emulation of it.
    Funny....that's almost the exact reason I went back to a modeling amp.

  2. #62
    firstlessonologist guitfiddle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    There was an article posted here a while ago that went over the test done on a group of pro and semi-pro guitarists, all tube amp lovers...nobody could tell the difference in either breakup, tone, percieved volume or feel of a SS vs a tube amp. EVERY ONE of them failed at the task...and these were pros...
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  3. #63
    Super Toneologist Sporky McGuffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    I have a lovely Cornell valve amp, and an ok Laney one. I still like my Microcube though, and at a jam night recently I just plugged into the amp offered and that sounded fine. Turned out to be a cheapo Peavey SS jobby.
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  4. #64
    Fleecy Sweaterologist The Golden Boy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerryjg View Post
    have you checked out the 1600 watt Ampeg tube Hybrid bass heads. They might change your mind about tubes in a bass rig.Bass is one area i defintily reccoemnd both tube and Solid state (unless youre filthy rich and can afford the Ampeg i mentioned). I do love using an all tube head for that reall mellow bass sound, but also like the headroom and immdiacy of a powerfull solid state rig.
    If you like the sound of a SS bass head, why would you want to have a tube section in it?

    Using a tube amp to sound like a SS amp for the sake of being able to say that you use a tube amp seems pretty stupid...
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  5. #65
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Iron Horse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtieToo View Post
    I imagine this question was more aimed at gigging, but for simple home use, its hard to beat a Hughes & Kettner Edition Blue 60. Sweet little amp. (Get the "R", reverb. Not the DSP, digital effects.)
    I have one too. I wouldn't say 'little', though. It has much too much power, but the speaker size is the key to tone. Gets great clean Vox/Fender-ish tones, and ok overdrive, too. With an SD-1 driving it more, it can get really great Marshally blues, rock and heavier tones and even some scooped metal tones (Metallica MOP-era tone, except that there is only one guitar track...).
    Definately a great amp for home use.

  6. #66
    Forbes
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty Pockets View Post

    I also think all of the people getting 15-30 watt amps instead of 50-100 watters is a testament to the pussification of rock-n-roll but i won't go into that.
    Truth is these amps are just TOO loud.

    Don't get me wrong at home and at practices i crank my 50 watt jcm800, but at gigs i have it set at 1, i turn it up to 2 and then the soundman tells me to turn it down, so now i need to spend more cash on expensive bits of kit to get my amp cookin when its not cranked, money i could have saved in the first place by getting a smaller amp!

    It's got nothing to do with being a pussy, it's got everything to do with the fact i play small clubs, i should have got an amp alot smaller than 50 watts and saved my cash for booze at the gigs!

  7. #67
    Skarekrough
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forbes View Post
    Truth is these amps are just TOO loud.

    Don't get me wrong at home and at practices i crank my 50 watt jcm800, but at gigs i have it set at 1, i turn it up to 2 and then the soundman tells me to turn it down, so now i need to spend more cash on expensive bits of kit to get my amp cookin when its not cranked, money i could have saved in the first place by getting a smaller amp!

    It's got nothing to do with being a pussy, it's got everything to do with the fact i play small clubs, i should have got an amp alot smaller than 50 watts and saved my cash for booze at the gigs!
    Live music as a social thing has also changed as well.

    Folks don't just go out to see bands for the sake of seeing live music. Usually they're not there to see the band; they're there to socialize and drink. A live band is a nice touch, but it's secondary. If it can bring more people in and keep them longer and they drink more then they're doing their job.

    But if the bands volume becomes unbearable for patrons and they don't stick around and drink then the band's going to get booted.

    100 watt amps and 50 watts amps were never intended to be played in bars and clubs. They were engineered for stadiums and large concert halls.

    The world changed...you either change with it or you get a beat-down for burning another venue that won't have live bands and will only have DJ's and karaoke.

  8. #68
    Just A Minion ErikH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenVulture View Post
    Home situation.

    N.I.
    Guitar rig 2 and 3 ,N.I. guitar combo's,Aturia-Jimi Hendrix VST.

    Rig 3 and JH Vst are installed at the present time.G rig 2 and G combo's have been on and off again.I have been fooling around with them for 6 months or so!


    I might get round to throwing something down with a backing track,to give you an idea of the sound.
    I wanted to use them for my "late night hours" recording ,but i think the sounds suk!
    Can't say I've ever heard those modelers before. Most PC based stuff I have heard hasn't been that great. They need to be heard through a good 12" speaker at least and sound even better when there's a tube power amp in the mix. I don't like the Line6 stuff but the Vox modelers are on the right track. They're not perfect, but out of them all, the Vox's sound the best to me.

  9. #69
    firstlessonologist guitfiddle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forbes View Post
    Truth is these amps are just TOO loud.

    Don't get me wrong at home and at practices i crank my 50 watt jcm800, but at gigs i have it set at 1, i turn it up to 2 and then the soundman tells me to turn it down, so now i need to spend more cash on expensive bits of kit to get my amp cookin when its not cranked, money i could have saved in the first place by getting a smaller amp!

    It's got nothing to do with being a pussy, it's got everything to do with the fact i play small clubs, i should have got an amp alot smaller than 50 watts and saved my cash for booze at the gigs!
    I think a great deal of it has got to do with the soundguys...lots of them think that they have to mic every single source of sound, and in a small club that's just stupid. The guitarist can take in a 40-50 watt 2x12 amp, and then the soundguy only puts vocals, touch of bass and kick/snare/overhead/keys through the board. Now everything is a bit clearer and the guitarist can run the amp a bit...and 40 watts ain't gonna peel paint when the rest of the band really gets cooking. I've had 15 watt amps be WAY too loud at a rehearsal, but in the heat of the real deal show they can tend to shrink dramaticaly.
    Last edited by guitfiddle; 04-25-2008 at 12:23 PM.
    - Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankly
    Some people make the wine. Some people drink the wine. And some people sniff the cork and wonder what might have been.
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  10. #70
    firstlessonologist guitfiddle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
    If you like the sound of a SS bass head, why would you want to have a tube section in it?

    Using a tube amp to sound like a SS amp for the sake of being able to say that you use a tube amp seems pretty stupid...
    It's about the quickness of the transient attack plus the lack of sag and compression in the SS power amp coupled with the sweetness and color of the tube preamp section. Then you get the benefit of both types of amp without all the annoying mush and fartyness of some all tube designs.
    - Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankly
    Some people make the wine. Some people drink the wine. And some people sniff the cork and wonder what might have been.
    The Eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn of the Crow.

  11. #71
    Skarekrough
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by guitfiddle View Post
    I think a great deal of it has got to do with the soundguys...lots of them think that they have to mic every single source of sound, and in a small club that's just stupid. The guitarist can take in a 40-50 watt 2x12 amp, and then the soundguy only puts vocals, touch of bass and kick/snare/overhead/keys through the board. Now everything is a bit clearer and the guitarist can run the amp a bit...and 40 watts ain't gonna peel paint when the rest of the band really gets cooking. I've had 15 watt amps be WAY too loud at a rehearsal, but in the heat of the real deal show they can tend to shrink dramaticaly.
    But on the other end of it, if the soundguy just throws a mic up there for the lead-singer he's depending on the rest of the band to be able to achieve that magical level where everything is as it should be.

    .....and when you depend on musicians to do just about anything you can almost ultimately bet on total and complete failure.

    No matter what happens everyone thinks they could and should be a little bit louder. Unless they have someone they trust to tell them otherwise and a bit of self-restraint then it always just turns into a total nightmare.

    However, if the soundguy mics everyone up and stands on the band to keep the levels down then he has some semblance of control. He can also be certain that he has the ability to vary the volume depending on the crowd and the mood of the patrons.

  12. #72
    Kyuss_Rockologist Rich_T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skarekrough View Post
    But on the other end of it, if the soundguy just throws a mic up there for the lead-singer he's depending on the rest of the band to be able to achieve that magical level where everything is as it should be.

    .....and when you depend on musicians to do just about anything you can almost ultimately bet on total and complete failure.

    No matter what happens everyone thinks they could and should be a little bit louder. Unless they have someone they trust to tell them otherwise and a bit of self-restraint then it always just turns into a total nightmare.

    However, if the soundguy mics everyone up and stands on the band to keep the levels down then he has some semblance of control. He can also be certain that he has the ability to vary the volume depending on the crowd and the mood of the patrons.
    Whilst that is undoubtedly true, thats more of a scenario that will occur with bar bands who are hired for entertainment for the evening. But this isn't always the case. I know a lot of the gigs that I go to are local bands making a bit of a reputation for themselves, they aren't touring acts, and they don't sell places out, but they do attract and audience that is there specifically to see them play. I want to see them at good volume, and more often than not, these guys are rocking 50 or 100 watt tops into a 4x12, and they sound really great.

    My point is, not every band that gets a gig in a bar is just secondary to the drinking habits of the punters. There is still a lot of opportunity for original bands to rock out and be the attraction of the evening, rather than background muzak of the same tired old cliched cover songs. That is the last thing that will attract me to a night out. I can't think of much worse. I want to see a band grab the venue by the collar and give it a good shake up.
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  13. #73
    theodie
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by guitfiddle View Post
    There was an article posted here a while ago that went over the test done on a group of pro and semi-pro guitarists, all tube amp lovers...nobody could tell the difference in either breakup, tone, percieved volume or feel of a SS vs a tube amp. EVERY ONE of them failed at the task...and these were pros...
    Like I said in a previous post, if they took the Pepsi challenge they would not know the difference. Leave pre-conceived notions at the door and let your ears figure out what sounds good.
    Last edited by theodie; 04-26-2008 at 09:22 AM.

  14. #74
    Skarekrough
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_T View Post
    I want to see a band grab the venue by the collar and give it a good shake up.
    I want to see it as well. And if you think you've got the goods enough to get away with that and make it worth the bridge you burn with the bar to get them to let you come back then go right ahead.

    But the fact of the matter is that we get gigs BECAUSE we sell drinks and the venue takes a cut from the door.

    Plenty of bars exist without live entertainment; they don't need us as much as we need them. And after the romance of having live music dies from getting blasted out night after night you're looking at DJ's and Karaoke.

  15. #75
    Forbes
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_T View Post
    Whilst that is undoubtedly true, thats more of a scenario that will occur with bar bands who are hired for entertainment for the evening. But this isn't always the case. I know a lot of the gigs that I go to are local bands making a bit of a reputation for themselves, they aren't touring acts, and they don't sell places out, but they do attract and audience that is there specifically to see them play. I want to see them at good volume, and more often than not, these guys are rocking 50 or 100 watt tops into a 4x12, and they sound really great.

    My point is, not every band that gets a gig in a bar is just secondary to the drinking habits of the punters. There is still a lot of opportunity for original bands to rock out and be the attraction of the evening, rather than background muzak of the same tired old cliched cover songs. That is the last thing that will attract me to a night out. I can't think of much worse. I want to see a band grab the venue by the collar and give it a good shake up.
    Oh i agree rich, these ARE the places we are playing, in fact last gig was at the croft, the band room is a seperate room from the bar with no bar in it, that you pay specifically just to see the band, if you are just there to drink and socialise then you wouldnt pay the fiver to get in the band room. Volume in there is full live band volume, but as soon as a mic was slapped in front of my 800 i was told to turn it down twice, i ended up with it on one and sounding lacking the balls it has when cranked.

    I don't know what my point is here, i guess i need an attenuator, but they arn't cheap. I guess i'm saying a lower wattage amp would have made my life easier.

  16. #76
    Braindeadologist GoldenVulture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    ErikH
    Can't say I've ever heard those modelers before. Most PC based stuff I have heard hasn't been that great. They need to be heard through a good 12" speaker at least and sound even better when there's a tube power amp in the mix. I don't like the Line6 stuff but the Vox modelers are on the right track. They're not perfect, but out of them all, the Vox's sound the best to me.
    As i said,i haven't tried anything but the PC ones,but stuff i,ve heard done on the things you mention ,and similar hardware orientated simulations/emulations,sound pretty good.
    Don't get me wrong about the PC"output" side of things. I run a six channel card [audigy ZS2]with two 70 watt amps .one on the front pair ,one on the rear pair,and a 35 watt amp on the centre/subwoofer.
    I've two sets of boxes on the front amp.Set 1 -15"woofers and high frequency horns.Set 2-2x10"woofers,midrange and high frequency drivers.
    Rear set- 12" woofers,midrange and HF drivers.
    The Audigy actually sux when it comes to the centre/subwoofer outs.They're full of bus noise,so i don't turn them on most times.
    The sub woofers are actually transducers[four of them] attached to a wooden floor.
    After all that the software emulators/modellers still sound like kerrap.

  17. #77
    Tone Member claydots's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Actually, I have both. Mostly use the tube amp but some guitars just sound better through SS.
    Yes, I am seeing a professional about the GAS... he's wrong

  18. #78
    Tone Member Thunder7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    I'll play whatever sounds good. I've played a Line 6 SpiderII 2x12 for some metalcore/hardcore stuff I used to do(thinking back it wasn't a great sound but it worked). Then I upgraded to a Krank Rev-1 head, great sound out of that thing, ended up being too much power and sold it. Up until recently I was playing a small 1x10 or 1x12 solidstate Fender Princeton 65 with a Metalzone or something similar running into it for dirty sounds, again not the best equipment there but I got a decent sound out of it. Now I'm running a Line 6 1x12 Spider Valve and it's giving me the best sound that I've ever had. It all depends on the guitarist and what they think sounds serviceable. I did the best I could with what I had at the time and got some pretty decent tones out of what I had surprisingly. The Spider Valve may be the end of the road for me though, there are so many great sounds that I'm getting out it. There are a lot of people that don't like it, but it's what I like and at the end of the day that's what matters. If it's tube, digital, solid state, hybrid whatever, as long as you get YOUR sound out of it nothing else matters.

  19. #79
    Tone Member DMR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    One thing I like about the Line 6 stuff is the tones at low volume. I have an HD147 head with the Line 6 4x12 cab loaded with Celestion V30's and I get what, to my ears, is a great full tone even at very low volume. There won't be many instances where i'll ever really be able to (or need to) run the thing anywhere near full power but I still like the thickness I get from using the 4x12 cab at low volume.

  20. #80
    Mojo's Minions TimmyPage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Once You Go Tube Never Go Back?

    Quote Originally Posted by HotSEXJ View Post
    I used to play a Fender Ultimate Chorus --- it was a delightful SS Amp.
    I agree. I borrowed one for a practice one time. The clean channel is amazing sounding, and the gain channel on it is one of the best I've ever heard, clean or ss. Just thick, fluid, not buzzy.

    If I could find one I'd sell a tube amp to purchase it.
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