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Thread: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

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    Ultimate Tone Member vladmarr's Avatar
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    Default alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    first off, let me tell you that i play in a church. and not your typical hymn junk either some really progressive stuff. anyways recently the church re did their sound room and bought this state of the art soundboard. previously i was allowed to mic my amp (70's Univox 1226 half stack) but now they want me to run through a DI without my amp and use avion for monitors, (btw, they suck with a headset unless you're a drummer, can't move anywhere...) i spent a good 3 hours trying to dial in a decent sound on my guitars and effects (see sig for description) and my overdrives and distortion pedals sounded like crap. so i thought, what if i ran the head of my cab through the DI meaning, taking the signal from between the amp head and the amp speaker (i can do that it's a separate)? my question is do i have to make sure that the load of the board and speakers matches the ohms on my amp or should i just not try it? i'm trying to find a way to get "my" sound back without using an amp...i can't stand sound techs that don't know about guitar tone...very annoying. anyways any help would be appreciated
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  2. #2
    supernosher
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    quit the church and find one that mics your amp.

  3. #3
    supernosher
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    I don't think you wanna try plugging the DI into the speaker out. Maybe, if this is feaable, buy an amp with a line out.

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker James Rock's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    You can get a load box with a DI out but seriously it isn't really that worth it. How come they won't let you mic it? Mics sound better then above options IMHO.
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    Mojo's Minions Diego's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    Mic the amp. Punch him in the throat if he insists.
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    HomeGrownToneBrewologist Rich_S's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    +1 to all of the above, that's my first reaction.

    However, that's a pretty big amp by today's standards, and most churches (no matter how "progressive" their music) tend to be really wussy about stage volume.

    You're not going to get a good direct sound out of your effects chain, because there's nothing in there that sounds like an amp. To do that, you either need an amp (duh) or a modeler. Lots of guys play direct through modelers in church, but I still think an amp sounds better. Smaller amps are easier to sell to the powers that be (i.e. the wussy soundman). You might try an attenuator to control stage volume - the Weber MASS has a direct out that can go to the PA. Or, you could isolate your cab offstage (off-altar, actually) and mike it back through the PA & in-ear system.

    Or you could buy a modeler. They all have effects built in, but you could probably use your effects chain and just use the modeler for the amp and cabinet simulations. If you go this route, your sound man will be happy, the music director will be happy because the soundman told him everything is good, and you'll have a nice, big resentment to carry around because you hate the sound and the feel you're getting out of the rig.

    Check the link in my signature to see the amp I played in my previous 250-seat church. 13 Watts, turned down even further with a Weber Mini-MASS. The other guitarist, who played a POD XT until I arrived, saw the tonal light and bought himself a Blues Junior. We got along fine with those two amps in that little bitty church and never had a volume complaint.

    Work with your soundman to find a solution, but don't give up your amp.

    And if he does force you into a modeler, send me the Univox. ;-)
    Last edited by Rich_S; 10-02-2008 at 08:00 PM.
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  7. #7
    supernosher
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    +1 to what Rich S and Diego are saying.

    I just remembered about the SansAmp direct box. That could model for you, and help restore some of that lost amp sound. But nothing ever sounds as good as a mic'd amp.

    Also, getting a nice THD UniValve would be nice and slutty...
    Last edited by supernosher; 10-02-2008 at 07:50 PM. Reason: spelled Diego wrong

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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    i have never heard a direct guitar tone that i liked in a live situation. a small little amp with a mic is your best bet. if they wont do anything but go direct, i would sit down with the rest congregation. God hates bad guitar tone

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    firstlessonologist guitfiddle's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    i have never heard a direct guitar tone that i liked in a live situation. a small little amp with a mic is your best bet. if they wont do anything but go direct, i would sit down with the rest congregation. God hates bad guitar tone
    Amen, brother!!!

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker andrizzle's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    at the church I play at we have amp-boxes back stage that are large enough to fit a fairly large cab / combo into, is it feasible that your church build a couple of those and place them somewhere offstage?! ... they have mics inside of them (running back to the snake) as well as a VERY large computer-type fan that is mounted in the door that keeps it relatively cool in there

    if that is not an option then a modeler is the way you'll HAVE to go

    Lincoln Brewster swears by his Pod XT Live and he's a monster guitar player.... he says he likes the sound of amps but the portability of the XT Live and the ability to instantly get his tones is what he loves about using a modeler

    By the way, the amp box is basically a wood box with soundproofing all along the roof and sides (including the door)

    you could probably get all the stuff to make one from Home Depot and Wal-Mart (if you HAVE to, you could probably use egg-crate bed liner stuff) for under $50

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    Joyfulnoiseologist Hoss's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    i have never heard a direct guitar tone that i liked in a live situation. A small little amp with a mic is your best bet. If they wont do anything but go direct, i would sit down with the rest congregation. God hates bad guitar tone
    best thing i've ever read on this site!!!

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    Last edited by Hoss; 10-03-2008 at 07:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    God hates bad guitar tone
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    Joyfulnoiseologist Hoss's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    on a serious note...i've been through your exact situation and it was frustrating beyond belief!

    try to explain to them the situation...and that you want good tone and feel!

    try to get them to understand that no matter what kind of board they have, it can't replace tube tone and that it will not only not sound good, but have a direct affect on your playing!

    maybe they would be open to a smaller more inconspicuous amp/combo?!

    definitely pray, pray, pray!
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    God hates bad guitar tone
    GUITARS: Schecter Saturn, Takamine, Ibanez Mandolin
    AMPS: Traynor YCV40WR/KT77s, VHT Special 6, Marshall AS50R
    EFX: Line 6 G30, Fhusk CS-3, Emerson EM-Drive, Emerson Paramount,
    Keisman Earlybird, EB VPJr, Empress Tape Delay, Hungry Robot Lil Gazer

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    Ultimate Tone Member vladmarr's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    God hates bad guitar tone
    oh man, i could not stop laughing at that. anyways i'm still trying to work on the sound guy, i'm thinking he's still in the honeymoon phase with the soundboard and when that wears off and he sees how crappy it makes my rig sounds he will come arround. i may look into picking up a Pod XT and charge it to the church... yeah they are wussy about volume too. i have a 10 watt marshall with a line out i'll try that this week
    Guitars:
    JT200c les paul copy( jazzn,59n b);
    MIM Fender Sunburst Strat.
    Gibson Lp Standard cherry burst.
    Traynor YCV-50 Blue

    Life is too short for bad tone…

  14. #14
    Ultimate Tone Slacker drpietrzak's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    I have been in this spot as well. The issue is often trying to control sound in a large space with a need for very low stage volumes. I have used an XT and perhaps the best thing I have had an option to try was a amp head into an Axe Trax. It was off stage a bit and then rant to the board.
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    TrippyVinylologist
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    God hates bad guitar tone
    Put a fish logo on that and make it a bumper sticker! You'll be rich and you can buy your own church, then you can fill it with rockers and mic your amp! Mystery solved.

  16. #16
    Mojo's Minions Laughing Kookaburra's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    I agree w/the small amp SM57 crowd.

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker viewaskew2k5's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    yeah get a nice 15/20 W and mic it
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    Ultimate Tone Member vladmarr's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    so no one recomends me taking the signal out of my amp head directly into the board with out the cab?
    Guitars:
    JT200c les paul copy( jazzn,59n b);
    MIM Fender Sunburst Strat.
    Gibson Lp Standard cherry burst.
    Traynor YCV-50 Blue

    Life is too short for bad tone…

  19. #19
    firstlessonologist guitfiddle's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    I might do that if there's a cab-voiced out and it puts the amp on standby when it's used...if not I'd use the 57 on a little amp.

    If you're talking about the speaker output, forget it.
    Last edited by guitfiddle; 10-05-2008 at 10:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankly
    Some people make the wine. Some people drink the wine. And some people sniff the cork and wonder what might have been.
    The Eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn of the Crow.

  20. #20
    Ultimate Tone Member vladmarr's Avatar
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    Default Re: alright all you amp gurus i got a tough question for ya!

    well, i got some good news and some bad news. the good news is i picked up a Pod XT for $150 bucks, the bad news is that i picked up a Pod XT. NOTHING will replace the sound of my tube amp...
    Guitars:
    JT200c les paul copy( jazzn,59n b);
    MIM Fender Sunburst Strat.
    Gibson Lp Standard cherry burst.
    Traynor YCV-50 Blue

    Life is too short for bad tone…

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