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Thread: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

  1. #21
    Mojo's Minions Lake Placid Blues's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Sealing up the gaps on a 4x12 tightens up the air suspension on the speaker cones. A tighter air suspension limits the amount the cones can travel, which effectively tightens and quickens the bass response. It can reduce tonal depth though. How tight the screw is in on the middle post also has an effect.

    I don't know much of anything about G12K100's. Sorry.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Quote Originally Posted by cakire82 View Post
    It seems that when it comes to metal Celestions seems to be the only choice. I would like to buy a 4X12 cabinet and I have 3 choices in mind;
    - Mesa Boogie Rectifier Cab (I think it has V30s. Correct me if I am mistaken)
    - Marshall 1960DM (V30s)
    - Avatar Contemporary Custom (V30s and G12T-75 mix)

    What do you guys think? Would you suggest any other for some tight heavy metal sound?
    Avatar is totally Diet Coke territory. I wouldn't go there. Mesa cabs are great but you can't choose the speakers you want.

    Celestion the only choice for metal? Tell it to Zakk Wylde. I have a Black Label in an Earcandy Sovereign and it stomps all over any Celestion loaded cab I've ever tried. Only problem: depending on your equipment it might be bass heavy.

    Take a look at Mills Acoustics for 4X12 cabinets. They offer E/V as a standard updgrade option to Celestion vintage30's, you don't even need to ask them for a quote. They are direct order but they are not cheap.

    I got an Earcandy Sovereign because they were the best looking 1X12 cab I could find. Had to get a custom quote.

    The G12K100 is basically a new version of the Classic Lead, which is an alternative to the G12T-75/Vintage 30 line of speakers. It has the heavy magnet of the vintage 30 and the highs of the G12T-75 and a cleaner sound then both. I discussed the speakers carefully with Dr. Decibel. I was going to order a Mills Acoustics 412 with G12K-100 when I stumbled on the fact that E/V was back in the business and decided on something smaller.

    I think the problem with the G12 Century, which is out of production and which was also part of the Classic Lead family, was that it's tone was too honky. That's why I decided on the G12K-100, which uses a ceramic magnet, instead.

    I also considered the G12-65 for that classic metal sound, but the speaker has a lot of thermal compression when you crank it, much like the G12T-75, and that's not what I want to sound like.
    Last edited by dnewhous; 01-05-2010 at 11:52 PM.

  3. #23
    Ultimate Tone Member Darth Nihilus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Are people really into Zakk Wylde's tone? I personally wouldn't look to him for killer guitar tone. Maybe during the "No Rest For The Wicked" era but definitely not now.

    I had a quartet of EVM-12L's and they were the most lifeless, bland sounding
    things I've heard in a long time. The only thing I could say is they are loud with no break-up.

    A quartet of Celestion V30's made it better but if I had a quartet of Eminence Governors to put in, it would make it awesome!

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Nihilus View Post
    Are people really into Zakk Wylde's tone? I
    I had a quartet of EVM-12L's and they were the most lifeless, bland sounding
    things I've heard in a long time.
    When were they made? EVM-12L's went out of production for a good reason; I don't even know when the good years were, but I figure it was before the "pro line" came out, whenever that was.

  5. #25
    Ultimate Tone Member Darth Nihilus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    They were Black Shadow EVM-12L's from my '86 Mesa/Boogie
    mark lll cab. Bland would be an understatement.

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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Nihilus View Post
    They were Black Shadow EVM-12L's from my '86 Mesa/Boogie
    mark lll cab. Bland would be an understatement.
    That should definitely be a good year.

    I like the fact that my E/V revealed the limitations of other parts of my system and caused me to make some changes.

  7. #27
    Ultimate Tone Member Darth Nihilus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Well I guess they just weren't for me.

    I'm really digging the Eminence Governors. Vintage 30 vibe without the upper mid spike lots of people hate.

  8. #28
    Cake Mire cakire82's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    What do you mean by diet coke? What do you think is wrong with Avatars?
    (Actually I like diet coke better than the original. Tastes more real and less sugar IMO.)

    Quote Originally Posted by dnewhous View Post
    Avatar is totally Diet Coke territory. I wouldn't go there. Mesa cabs are great but you can't choose the speakers you want.

  9. #29
    Mojo's Minions Virtual Kevorkian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    I'm still big big into V30's in an oversized Recto cab. For other cabs where the V30's would sound harsh, I really love Celestion G12K-100's.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Quote Originally Posted by cakire82 View Post
    What do you mean by diet coke? What do you think is wrong with Avatars?
    (Actually I like diet coke better than the original. Tastes more real and less sugar IMO.)
    Diet Coke = not good. Substandard

    Nutra Sweet is a neuro toxin that was permitted by the FDA only because Donald Rumsfeld's buddies passed money around to the right people. It's like drinking embalming fluid.

    Avatar cabs = small, thin wood, thin wires. Not as bad as Vibroworld.

    Mills Acoustics makes cabs as big as the Rectos. No price difference.

    Other brands to look at -

    Boogafunk makes a 112 cab specifically for the EVM-12L using E/V's TL806 DIY spec.

    Earcandy and Harry Joyce (and only those brands) offer the Sugar Cone; touted as the ultimate speaker for vintage buffs. I'm sure its great for classic rock but is it good for metal? The description makes me think of the G12H - the heavy magnet version of the greenback.

  11. #31
    Mojo's Minions SirJackdeFuzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Nihilus View Post
    Are people really into Zakk Wylde's tone? I personally wouldn't look to him for killer guitar tone. Maybe during the "No Rest For The Wicked" era but definitely not now.

    I had a quartet of EVM-12L's and they were the most lifeless, bland sounding
    things I've heard in a long time. The only thing I could say is they are loud with no break-up.

    A quartet of Celestion V30's made it better but if I had a quartet of Eminence Governors to put in, it would make it awesome!
    Why would anyone like a tone that goes :

    EMG actives --->Marshall

    No thanx, not for me !
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  12. #32
    Cake Mire cakire82's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Thank you for the clarification and the info. Really appreciated. I will look into these brands.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnewhous View Post
    Diet Coke = not good. Substandard

    Nutra Sweet is a neuro toxin that was permitted by the FDA only because Donald Rumsfeld's buddies passed money around to the right people. It's like drinking embalming fluid.

    Avatar cabs = small, thin wood, thin wires. Not as bad as Vibroworld.

    Mills Acoustics makes cabs as big as the Rectos. No price difference.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Now, I have a question.

    Generally speaking, is there a discernable difference in sound between the 8 ohm and 16 ohm models for speakers?

  14. #34
    Mojo's Minions Virtual Kevorkian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJackdeFuzz View Post
    Why would anyone like a tone that goes :

    EMG actives --->Marshall

    No thanx, not for me !
    Because the JVM is insaaaanely good.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnewhous View Post
    Now, I have a question.

    Generally speaking, is there a discernable difference in sound between the 8 ohm and 16 ohm models for speakers?
    Nope!

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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual Kevorkian View Post
    Because the JVM is insaaaanely good.

    Nope!
    Don't KK Downing and Glen Tipton do EMG -> Marshall too?

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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    I thought I'd ask if anyone has tried the Jensen JN12-100TR.

    What's significant about it? It's a neodymium magnet speaker with large power handling (100 watts) and a low resonance frequency (72.4). It looks like it may be what Celestion tried to do with the original G12 Century and fell flat.

    Part of the appeal of the Vintage 30 and Century Vintage is they are some of the few guitar loudspeakers with a resonance frequency below low E. This is what gives them the "deeper" sound that so many people I have talked to love when comparing them to the GT-75 (which has the same resonance as the preponderance of Celestions speakers - 85 Hz).

    The Jensen speaker I sniffed out has the lower resonance frequency of those speakers with the wattage that indicates a cleaner, more modern sound.

    Magnet weight does matter. I can't imagine anyone lugging a 4X12 cabinet with Electrovoice speakers unless you can pay roadies to do it for you.

    Those Scholtz Sugar Cones use ferrite magnets and are somewhere between the weight of an E/V and a heavy Celestion.
    Last edited by dnewhous; 01-14-2010 at 12:19 AM.

  17. #37
    Cake Mire cakire82's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lake Placid Blues View Post
    Mixing the G12T75 and the V30 is a popular solution for hard rock and metal, because the T75 has scooped mids, big bottom and sharp treble, and stays relatively clean, while the V30 has strong mids and tight bass, and adds color and dimension to distortion textures. Since the V30 is louder than the T75 putting them in an X pattern in a 4x12 is popular. In a stereo cab you may want the V30 on bottom and the T75 on top-or maybe the other way.....
    So if I were to get a stereo 4x12 should I place the V30s at the bottom and GT75s on the top? I am guessing that V30s might give too much midrange on the top and GT75s get too boomy at the bottom.

    What do you guys think?
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  18. #38
    Ultimate Tone Member Darth Nihilus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    I would put them in an X pattern. If not, then I'd put the
    bassier G12T-75 on the bottom and the V30's on the top.
    The X pattern would be better IMO.

  19. #39
    Mojo's Minions Lake Placid Blues's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    I don't think it matters too much. The X pattern is probably the best, unless you find the upper mids of the V30 too strong. In that case put them in the bottom. The 75 has pretty sharp treble to go with their strong bass. They might work better down below if the bass is too boomy and the highs too sharp though. I'd try the X pattern first and see how it works.

  20. #40
    Mojo's Minions papersoul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best speakers for Metal and Rock?

    Never understand why people think V30s and T75s are only for metal.
    Those two mixed in a 212 cab or x pattern in a 412 is great for classic rock, pop, hard rock or metal. Very even sounding, soft high end and tight bass. Perfect pair. Voodoo Amps suggests this mix in their 212 and 412 cabs for all styles.

    CL80s work well as do K100s but both of those are a little stiff.
    I like speakers with some give. 80s and 100s cranked up are too unforgiving for me, better for metal.

    I really want to try the new Celestion Lynchbacks

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