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Thread: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

  1. #81
    Mojo's Minions lex666's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Thank God.

    I thought y'all were gonna tell me I wasted my money on that Mark V and should have gotten a 'Budge-gera'.

    *phew*
    If I know I'm going crazy, I must not be insane.

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    DON'TGETMADBRO

  2. #82
    Our Neighbor Totoro FuseG4's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koreth View Post
    derivative improvements on a design is not what happened here with Bugera.
    Yup.

  3. #83
    Toneologist Fikealox's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by ratherdashing View Post
    I'm not an admin, but I play one on TV.
    My mistake; I misinterpreted your undername. Anyhoo, I'm ambivalent with respect to the ethical issue, but I am positive that I won't be buying a Bugera. I haven't had a single positive experience with any of their products. Of course, I won't be buying a Mesa Boogie either, but I wish I could.
    Last edited by Fikealox; 03-30-2010 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Added quote for clarity

  4. #84
    Mojo's Minions mwalluk's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    This thread has got me through a whole work day and I thank you for that....
    Quote Originally Posted by grumptruck
    No I think James and Dave have that covered. You are obviously rocking way to hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gear Used
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  5. #85
    Darkness on the edge of Tone TwilightOdyssey's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalluk View Post
    this thread has got me through a whole work day and i thank you for that....
    +1
    Why don't you take your little Cobra Kais and get outta here?!
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  6. #86
    Ultimate Tone Slacker eschoendorff's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by ratherdashing View Post
    And Marshall cloned a Fender, and Fender copied radio designs ... blah blah blah on back to the first guy who whacked two stones together and made a spearhead.

    I'm having a hard time understanding why some people can't seem to tell the difference between basing something off an existing design, and copying an existing design. It's a plainly simple thing from my perspective.

    Take a look at the words I bolded up there. Mike Soldano didn't set out to build a clone of a Marshall, build it cheaply, and sell it at below Marshall's price. He took an existing design (the 1959 Super Lead which, at the time, wasn't made anymore) and made some key changes to the circuit to get more distortion and harmonics out of it. At that point, it ceased being a Super Lead Plexi and became a Soldano SLO-100. The design, though based on the same platform, was significantly different. Nobody could possibly mistake an SLO for a Plexi, and nobody would go out to buy an SLO hoping it will get them that classic Plexi tone for less money (the SLO-100 is WAY more expensive than a Plexi, in fact).

    Behringer doesn't improve on existing designs, or modify existing designs to provide a key feature that the original did not have. They steal designs, make some cosmetic changes, build them cheap, and undercut the price of the original. Anyone who legitimately thinks that what Soldano, Bogner, etc. do is remotely like what Behringer does is either stupid or delusional.
    This whole thread should end here. ^^^ Nuff said.

  7. #87
    Mojo's Minions Binnerscot's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJackdeFuzz View Post
    Hey Binnerscot, i know your post is meant to be "funny", but i think this feature that dominus is referring too, is more like that of the new'ish Egnater and Vox AC4 amps, where if really does scale down the wattge of an amp.

    Something that (afaik) Mesa has not done yet.
    I am not referring to their 5W/15W/30W switching modes, but one where you have 100 diff options from 100W right down to 1W.


    http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...ku=423014#used



    Egnater Rebel-30 30W Tube Guitar Amp Head Features:


    30W all-tube head
    Variable wattage control from 1W to 30W on each channel
    Tube Mix blends 6V6 and EL84 power tubes
    Clean channel: volume, bass, treble
    Overdrive channel: volume, gain, bass, middle, treble
    Tight and bright voicing switches on each channel
    Individual reverb level for each channel with "spillover"
    Footswitch for channel select and reverb on/off
    Buffered effects loop
    Balanced XLR/1/4" Cabinet voiced line/recording output
    Speaker mute mode for Silent Recording
    100V / 115V / 230V voltage selector
    Yes it was meant to be "funny" and somewhat serious, power scaling just doesn't impress me. A couple of wattage settings will get most out of a tube power section, but if it floats your boat.......
    Quote Originally Posted by LesStrat View Post
    Of course, I lack the requisite intellectual capacity to engage in a theoretical discourse regarding the sociological and ethical implications of the absurd and incongruous concept of personal ownership of firearms and the ridiculous supposition that humans are capable of responsibly using said weapons.

  8. #88
    Jessie Sammler
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    A thread is never complete without a wildly inappropriate Jessie Sammler™ comment:


  9. #89
    Mojo's Minions Binnerscot's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Note View Post
    Sure, but mesa dual rec is a big middle finger on Pete Soldano. The big is even further emphasized by the fact that mesa zeroxed the entire design with 100% accuracy(with the exeption of FX loop placement) but couldn't make it work properly due to their bad layout design. Or maybe that's a finger on mr smith?!?

    What's even more hilarious is the fact that Randall Smith tends to lift parts of circuitry from old radio books and call it his own design and get patents for them. Simul-class is not even simulclass as the other tube pair is just cathode biased, definetly not class A. The multi rectifier design is also just marketing blurb as with the design of *Petes* preamp you have already fully saturated, near square shaped signal feeding the poweramp which will saturate thus removing all sag that might be there. Mesas biasing method is also crap as you cannot actually bias the amps at all.

    EDIT: Mike Soldano
    Even if it was Zerox'ed a SLO and Recto sound nothing alike and I am pretty sure that was intentional.
    Quote Originally Posted by LesStrat View Post
    Of course, I lack the requisite intellectual capacity to engage in a theoretical discourse regarding the sociological and ethical implications of the absurd and incongruous concept of personal ownership of firearms and the ridiculous supposition that humans are capable of responsibly using said weapons.

  10. #90
    Understatmentologist ginormous's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie Sammler View Post
    A thread is never complete without a wildly inappropriate Jessie Sammler™ comment:

    MIDOL (tm) is a registered trademark... those marching boots are the Intellectual Property police coming to get you.

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  11. #91
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Top Jimmy's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Note View Post
    Marshall jtm 45 is rest of them aren't.
    Isn't more like Bassman lead to jtm which led to...which led to...

    Kinda like ford led to chevy led to Ferrari, etc.

  12. #92
    25's Nemesis Benjy_26's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Bheringer sucks for ripping off designs, but I honestly think that this wont matter a whit to Smith. Anyone seriously looking at a Boogie will not hbuy a Bugera and anyone looking at a Bugera is more than likely not seriously looking at getting a Boogie. Even if someone chooses a Bugera over a used Boogie, Smith still won't care. He makes zilch off of used Boogies. Either way, I'm sticking to Rivera.
    Ain't nothin' but a G thang, baby.

  13. #93
    Ultimate Tone Member Brown Note's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koreth View Post
    Yes and no. The Recto and SLO100 do have very similar preamp designs, with the same number of gain stages, with the same cathode resistor/cap and plate resistor values at each stage. This would likely explain how the SLO100 and recto likely sound similar.

    The similarities start to end there. The rest of the preamp is not the same. The tone stack sits before the FX loop. The FX loop layout is different, and the loop itself is bypass-able. The negative feedback loop in the power amp is configured differently and is bypassed for the red channel, with the "Presence" control moved to the preamp. The power supply can use either SS diode or rectifier tubes for the effects a saggy or stiff power supply can have on tone.

    So the Recto is not a direct copy or ripoff of the SLO100. Derivative? Absolutely. But it's not derivative designs that was the point of this thread. There's nothing inherently bad about derivative designs that take the original and change one or a few things to make something that's new and different in a way. A Bassman and an early Marshall might sound similar as the original Marshalls were a copy of the Bassman circuit. But Marshall changed a few things which ended up changing the sound of his amps and giving them their own, unique character. I'd argue that's the same as what happened with the SLO100 and the Recto.

    And from what I've seen thus far, derivative improvements on a design is not what happened here with Bugera.

    Rectos were and still *mostly* are a direct copy of soldanos preamp design. Before they had 3 channels it really was a dead on copy, even the first stages 20n coupling cap(22n are *much* more common).

    The same goes to 5150 with the only exeption of one added gain stage(that still has the ubiquituous Soldano 1k8/1µF cathode)

  14. #94
    Ultimate Tone Slacker firebirdV's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    I don't get how people can complain about NAFTA and about how our government is failing due to the trade deficit with china, but then continue to purchase crap like this.

    I've stated this before, but, as my grandfather says, we sold this country to china for cheap t shirts.

    In general, I agree with EmptyPockets. There is plenty of used gear out there and a little patience will do a lot of good.

  15. #95
    John Mayer's Mankini ImmortalSix's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalSix View Post
    I guess now would be a bad time to release my new Deluxe Rhubarb design
    Quote Originally Posted by guitfiddle View Post
    I'll put out the Vibey Lox at the same time and see if we can get some market share.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterwhizzy View Post
    I want to work with your marketing department on my Parshall PBJ line.
    Quote Originally Posted by guitfiddle View Post



    Just wait til they release my new Hampeg SVP
    Quote Originally Posted by misterwhizzy View Post
    Loaded with chewy distortion!

    Goes great with the all-new Dr. Pepper Spaz 18.


    All this is makin' me hungry!

  16. #96
    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    It seems that what people are really concerned about in this thread is quality of merchandise available, not copyright. None of us care if a design gets lifted and a great quality alternative choice pops up . . . but if someone tries to take a design and pump a bunch of crappy ones out, we all know that stupid people will buy the crappy copies 9 times out of 10. This leads to less cash to the quality manufacturers and ultimately fewer guys who make great stuff.

    I call this the Wal-Mart effect, and it's destroying a lot of great specialty places. Everybody wants cut-rate inferior products it seems. It's all related to a lack of patience (I want it now and can only afford crap), and a lack of forethought (It'll cost me more in the long run to keep replacing what I have).

  17. #97
    John Mayer's Mankini ImmortalSix's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Yeah man, you nailed it.

  18. #98
    Toneologist sbecker67's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by FuseG4 View Post
    I'm not going to because I don't belive I'll get my money's worth.
    That's a perfectly respectable statement. +1

  19. #99
    Toneologist sbecker67's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    It seems that what people are really concerned about in this thread is quality of merchandise available, not copyright. None of us care if a design gets lifted and a great quality alternative choice pops up . . . but if someone tries to take a design and pump a bunch of crappy ones out, we all know that stupid people will buy the crappy copies 9 times out of 10.
    Thank you Steve. This is exactly the point I was trying to make, only I was hoping they would come to this realization themselves. This moral stance against pirated or copied products is B.S, it's the perceived level of quality that offends them.

  20. #100
    Mojo's Minions mwalluk's Avatar
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    Default Re: look at what Bugera went and copied this time around.

    Now can we also have a thread bashing cheap guitar companies next?!?!?!
    Quote Originally Posted by grumptruck
    No I think James and Dave have that covered. You are obviously rocking way to hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gear Used
    PRS CE 22 (Custom 5 / 59)
    Gibson Les Paul (Screaming Demon / Pearly Gates)
    Mesa Stiletto Ace
    Gurus 5015
    Mesa Widebody 1X12
    Pedalboard

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