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Thread: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

  1. #41
    Vintageologist crusty philtrum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Label View Post
    C'mon...

    Also, tube amps are a combination of tubes AND solid state components.

    .
    That's a rather broad statement, and not entirely correct. Many amps feature tube rectification and possibly only one diode in the bias supply, or none in the case of cathode bias.

    My post also acknowedges that digital guitar processing is gaining traction, and i wouldn't be surprised if they end up becoming used by more people than tube amps.

    I hope i never have to see the day when people prefer the sound of a modelled Marshall or Vox over a real Marshall or Vox, and it seems likely that the rise of modelled sounds will make real amps difficult for some players to come to grips with.

    Technology like this has it's place and it's uses, but it would be a sad day if people got to the point where they didn't actually understand exactly what it is that has been modelled.

    I find it ironic that most people here are heavily into various forms of hard rawkin' music styles, and yet they wanna rawk with hi-tech stuff that is so very not rock'n'roll. Not to mention the conflict between the combat of playing a rock gig and stopping between songs to fiddle with parameters on an lcd screen or whatever.

    I do understand the nature of generational rebellion, and how each successive generation shuns the methods of the previous one. To some degree that's how things change and progress in some ways, but it is also rather easy to throw out some very worthwhile and valid things too. Potential for progress is a good thing, but progress for the sake of it is ... well .... not always a good thing. Sadly, the technology nowdays has brought a lot of people to a state where they are swappping technologies endlessly simply because the newest version has arrived, and rarely does anyone seem to stop and actually consider 'do we actually need this to this degree?'

    At various periods in my life i have plunged into whatever hi-tech gear has been happening at that time (Roland 707 guitar synth, Gallien Krueger amps in the 80s for example) and those things all had some great things going on, but ultimately they were novelties that could be useful, and overall they lacked the basic primitive direct reproduction that allowed a player to easily find and project their work in an organic and inspiring way.

    Audiences these days are probably aware (particularly when seeing a solo act, duo or trio performing with at least some backing track being played) that some of what they are hearing is not live. Now, they are not educated in this stuff, so it is very likely they may well trust that the vocals are live and be uncertain about anything else they hear. The more synthetic and processed (and compressed usually too) a sound is onstage, the more likely it is that it might be mistaken for a midi track or pre-recorded backing.

    Anyway, what do i know about anything ? I am old and have only been involved in music and electronics for four decades, there are many younger people about who know much more than i do, and no doubt they're right. I am just glad the human life expectancy is what it is, and not longer.
    Last edited by crusty philtrum; 05-26-2011 at 12:05 AM.
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  2. #42
    Riffologist Extraordinaire Tor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    I hope i never have to see the day when people prefer the sound of a modelled Marshall or Vox over a real Marshall or Vox, and it seems likely that the rise of modelled sounds will make real amps difficult for some players to come to grips with.

    Technology like this has it's place and it's uses, but it would be a sad day if people got to the point where they didn't actually understand exactly what it is that has been modelled.
    I think you're being overly pessimistic... Tube amps will always have a certain "mojo", and people will recognize that. The worst case would be that amps would be a novelty like LP players, and even so, people who had never played amps with glowing stuff in them would still have an idea about what they are. Sure, you have the younguns who have just started playing who might not be familiar with tubes, but you have found those many years earlier before modeling really was picking up; lots of people sticking to solid state amps. That's alright with me, if they're happy, that's cool. Same with modeling. Neither might have tried "the real deal", but eventually they will get there - and if they don't, that's fine too. Perhaps modelers will take over in 50 years, and tube amp players will be in the minority, but I doubt that it will be so marginalized that it will become merely a myth.

    Keyboard players have made the transition faster guitarists, yet most people have heard real Rhodes or B3s in action at some point.

    I went from the Fractal to a Hayseed which is PTP handwired, reproduced after the 1963 circuit of a Vox. I have no doubt there will be a noticeable demand for old-fashioned amps in the near and distant future, both from the old geezers to kiddos like me.

    I find it ironic that most people here are heavily into various forms of hard rawkin' music styles, and yet they wanna rawk with hi-tech stuff that is so very not rock'n'roll. Not to mention the conflict between the combat of playing a rock gig and stopping between songs to fiddle with parameters on an lcd screen or whatever.
    Is that an issue..? A lot of them have found something that works for them, why should they compromise with their tastes? Of course image plays into the equation, but I would venture to say that those that have found their solution in the Fractals and 11Rs adjust the image to incorporate this, rather than finding their solutions in accordance to a rigid image they have been set on.

    What about The Edge? He's playing on old 60s Voxes, but have you seen the huge racks he has? Bono once said he is 70% engineer, and 30% guitarist. Not very rock'n'roll, but it sure works for him..

    And the fiddling should be a non-issue if you're smart about it: that's what presets and MIDI-boards are for. The MIDI-boards ensure the capability just like big pedalboards into amps, while you also have the additional feature of presets, which is handy for many. I am guessing, but I don't think Bulb is fiddling a lot with his fancy LCD screen when they're on stage.

    I do understand the nature of generational rebellion, and how each successive generation shuns the methods of the previous one. To some degree that's how things change and progress in some ways, but it is also rather easy to throw out some very worthwhile and valid things too. Potential for progress is a good thing, but progress for the sake of it is ... well .... not always a good thing. Sadly, the technology nowdays has brought a lot of people to a state where they are swappping technologies endlessly simply because the newest version has arrived, and rarely does anyone seem to stop and actually consider 'do we actually need this to this degree?'
    It's all about honesty to yourself. People try new technology to see if it's something that's fitting them. Perhaps the older generation interpret this as rebellion, but that would be an extremely small percentage (<1%) of the whole picture.

    The swapping is much more than swapping between technology. It's a swapping between gear. Admittedly I consider swapping my DD-20 delay for a Superdelay. But it's part of the fun for me, and I don't think it has taken over such that my musical progress suffers because of it. Swapping an amp for a Fractal is more the same, but in a larger scale of course. Looking at the guitar community as a whole might call this swapping a paradigm shift, but for each individual, it's all about finding out what works for you or not.

    The Fractal was not what I needed in the end, but it's a great tool, which you can't deny is groundbreaking and a real representative of progress in the gear department.

    At various periods in my life i have plunged into whatever hi-tech gear has been happening at that time (Roland 707 guitar synth, Gallien Krueger amps in the 80s for example) and those things all had some great things going on, but ultimately they were novelties that could be useful, and overall they lacked the basic primitive direct reproduction that allowed a player to easily find and project their work in an organic and inspiring way.
    Well, they were novelties for a reason (not convincing enough). The Fractals are beginning to change this. Technology has come a long way since the 80s...

    Audiences these days are probably aware (particularly when seeing a solo act, duo or trio performing with at least some backing track being played) that some of what they are hearing is not live. Now, they are not educated in this stuff, so it is very likely they may well trust that the vocals are live and be uncertain about anything else they hear. The more synthetic and processed (and compressed usually too) a sound is onstage, the more likely it is that it might be mistaken for a midi track or pre-recorded backing.
    Well, if that'd be the case, the problem lies with the acts. But I am pretty sure that audiences are beginning to struggle hearing the difference between a mic'ed up amp on stage and a Fractal. So, what you see (the guitar player on stage rocking out) is what you get (hearing the sounds of him rocking out). I seriously doubt this represents more of an issue than it is today.
    Last edited by Tor; 05-26-2011 at 11:46 AM.

  3. #43
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Animal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Label View Post
    C'mon...
    Also, tube amps are a combination of tubes AND solid state components.
    That is correct, okay maybe partially, but that's a whole different argument. Analogue amps, tube or solid-state, feel different to digital amps because there is no A/D D/A process occurring to shape it's tone.

    I have not played an Axe-Fx but EVERY digital amp I've played through has left me with a preference for a good sounding analogue solid-state amp. Sure, digital amps do quite a clever job at recreating "tone" of other famous amps, but the interaction between the fingers, speaker, and room is not quite there. More like a "greatest hits" facsimile of guitar amplification via a computer chip. Analogue solid-state amps can sound quite buzzy and harsh overdriven but they still feel real.
    Last edited by Animal; 05-26-2011 at 04:49 AM.

  4. #44
    Toneologist Mattr4president's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by aleclee View Post
    Not sure I follow your argument. On the one hand, you seem to say that there's no substitute for tubes. On the other, you claim that substitutes are imminent if not already available.

    Here's my bottom line on the tube amp issue: Too many people are hung up on the "how" and fail to focus on the "what". Teh interwebz are filled every day with guitar players hearing with their eyes, dismissing gear because it's the wrong brand, made in the wrong country, or has a mode of operation that's not "approved". We'd be a whole lot happier if we judged with our ears and evaluated based on sonic reality rather than hype.

    That applies equally to those who are running out to by the AxeFX 2 and those who dismiss modelers.
    What i'm trying to say there are multiple solutions to the issue at hand. If tomorrow we had a tube apocalypse and we couldn't get anymore tubes. sorta like mad max of guitar amps. Then all I'm saying is that the demand for quality sounding guitar equipment would eventually be fulfilled by something. whether it be digital modeling via AxeFX or with smaller solutions like those plug in solid state tubes i mentioned, something will come along. What happens inside of that glowing glass casing is not magical, it's not mystical, it's not touched by the hand of God. It's science. It's a process that I'm sure, in time, can be studied and replicated to within 99.9% of the original.

    Edit: I think, essentially, what we're saying agrees. One must trust their ears, but I don't think anyone could say "i will never, ever, ever use a modeler amp" *sticks fingers in ears* "lalalalala".
    Last edited by Mattr4president; 05-26-2011 at 06:37 AM.
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  5. #45
    Major General GAS aleclee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by grumptruck View Post
    Keep in mind Alec is a mod at TGP.
    More importantly, I'm a kool-aid drinking AxeFx owner who hasn't chosen to turn on a tube amp in nearly two years. For the time being I'll hold on to my Rivera and modded HRDx but if it came down to it, I'd part with both of them before giving up the Fractal.

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    Super Toneologist voggin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    I think it comes down to what you think your instrument is. If you see your instrument as the guitar, which is then amplified to produce a certain sound, then you are likely more open to new amp technologies, and see the modelling world from a "glass half full" point of view.

    If, however, you see the instrument that you play as the total combination of the guitar, cable and amp, you are probably less likely to allow for any of the comprimises that (current) amp modelling may bring to that tone. I know a guy who only plays a tele through a deluxe reverb, and feels any other combination is some kind of high tech toy. For him, tone is all about the picking and bending as it interacts with that amplifier, including exploiting the faults, if you will, of that technology (spring reverb "pings", growls at low volume from ridiculously sharp picking, etc.) So modelling technology is going to have to come a long way to convert him, in the same way a digital acoustic guitar is going to have to be pretty amazing to impress a bluegrass picker.

    As for me, I'm in the middle, in that I love the sound of a tube amp (my favourite tone in the world is my buzzy strat through a pro junior) but I'm open to the idea that some day modellers will either be as good or close enough that convenience and price might push me in that direction.

    I do worry, though, that too much focus will be on simply copying famous tube tones, rather than exploiting the possibilities of new tones which the new technology would allow, both with tube flavours and high-tech new sounds. After all, the first overdrive pedals and wahs, etc., were new technology before they became part of the traditional arsenal. (Not that my buddy with the tele would ever touch those crazy gizmos!)

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    Super Simonologist JOLLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Strats are better than Les Pauls.

  8. #48
    Mojo's Minions Diego's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by JOLLY View Post
    Strats are better than Les Pauls.


    The only reason I'm considering spending big bucks on a real tube amp that does what I want like a Bogner Shiva,
    instead of a Eleven Rack/Axe FX or some other digital piece that I know it would do all the right noises as well,
    it's because of depreciation. One day the Eleven Rack will cost peanuts. The Shiva never will.
    And since it's big bucks for me, I can't risk spending $5, only to be able to sell by $1 if things get bad someday.
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  9. #49
    He Did the Monster Mash DrNewcenstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    I remember some years ago when all the tube puritans swore they'd never buy Chinese tubes. RCA and all the old greats stopped making tubes, and the supply of NOS tubes grew shorter and shorter and prices went higher and higher.

    Then the Wall fell and someone found a Soviet warehouse full of vintage tubes and the puritans rejoiced that they didn't have to buy Chinese tubes.

    Now I see posts from people raving about the latest set of Chinese tubes they got for their Marshall because the Russian tubes are either priced out of reach or simply not available.


    Drowning man clutches at straws, film at 11.


    Meanwhile, computer technology continues to escalate in both performance and quality, while plummetting in price.
    Back in the olden days, guitar synths could not track well. There was always that slight delay between attack and response. People who don't know any better claim that digital preamps still do that today.
    People who have tried to use vsts on a computer that isn't powerful enough to run them *correctly* also note the delay between attack and reponse, and dismiss the technnology entirely.

    It takes more thought to operate a digital preamp than a tube preamp, and that's what runs a lot of puritans off. They're so used to "plug in, turn on, rock out" that they forgot hwo it was when they first got a tube amp - the EQ tweaking you had to do to dial in your sound, the subtle nuances you convinced yourself exist between 6 and 7 on each knob. Speaker swapping, 6l6 vs EL34 vs kt88 vs 12ax7 vs 12ay7 vs 12at7 vs 2 vs 1 preamp tube vs cascading gain vs coiled cables vs straight vs cloth-wrapped enamel-coated wire vs rubber-cased vs........

    If you're fiddling with an LCD screen on stage you deserve all the ridicule you get.
    If you think everyone who has a rack is going to be fiddling with their LCDs on stage during the show, you are a drowning man clutching at straws for a reason to make your anti-technology point, and it's laughably sad.

    Yes, friends and neighbors, there IS something that's just like a guitar straight into a tube amp - it's called a digital modeler. It simply takes a little more effort to set it up than "turn on, plug in, go", but once it's set up properly, then you plug in and go. Just like it was when you first got your precious tube amp.

    Yes, they have the same tactile response to gutar knob tweaks and picking attack, once the modeler is set up correctly, just like it was with your precious tube amp.

    Yes, you can nail someone's **** to the table with a digital unit through a poweramp if the modeler is set up properly, just like it was when you first got your precious tube amp.


    Take your tube amp into a different environment and spend a few minutes tweaking the EQ to suit the room.
    Or simply select the room model from your LCD and plug in and go.


    As for small acts (duos and whatnot that were mentioned), people get more exposure from studio tracks they post on their Myspace page. When their small cadre of fans go see them at the coffee shop, they expect to hear it like they heard it on Myspace, not "the true live experience". Ergo, they need portable processing power.
    While garage monkeys with their trap kit, Epi and Squire instruments and little ProJrs can take their setup into bigger garages and sound the same, that's a totally different scene.

    If you need digital modeling to do screamo/punk, you have a mental issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Note View Post
    I'm soooooo jealous about the WR-1. It's the perfect guitar; fantastic to play, balances well even when seated and *great* reach for the upper frets. The sound is bright tight and very articulate. In summary it could only be more awesome if it had b00bs and was on fire!
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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Red_Label's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diego View Post


    The only reason I'm considering spending big bucks on a real tube amp that does what I want like a Bogner Shiva,
    instead of a Eleven Rack/Axe FX or some other digital piece that I know it would do all the right noises as well,
    it's because of depreciation. One day the Eleven Rack will cost peanuts. The Shiva never will.
    And since it's big bucks for me, I can't risk spending $5, only to be able to sell by $1 if things get bad someday.

    I hear ya there Diego! I only spent $600 on my 11R (and later $99 on the expansion pack). I looked at the Fractal before I went with the 11R and at the time they were going for like $2200. That's what I paid for my XTC Classic. That's too much for a modeler for my comfort. And because of the new Axe-Fx II, I'm seeing a few Fractals for around the $1K mark. That's a HELLUVA depreciation from 6 months ago.

    At any rate, I can take my $600 11R going to the value of peanuts, $2K+ is a whole other story! Having said that... NOW (or maybe a little later) is the time to buy a Fractal Standard or Ultra in the sense that it's taken such a huge hit and now it a relative "bargain".

    But I support your lust for the Shiva. It's a lifetime/heirloom type of thing. As good as a few of the modelers are, NONE of them qualify as that. The only piece of rack gear that I've seen hold some value over the long-term is the TC 2290. Just about everything else can be found for like $100 or under after a handful of years.
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  11. #51
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Red_Label's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewcenstein View Post
    I remember some years ago when all the tube puritans swore they'd never buy Chinese tubes. RCA and all the old greats stopped making tubes, and the supply of NOS tubes grew shorter and shorter and prices went higher and higher.

    Then the Wall fell and someone found a Soviet warehouse full of vintage tubes and the puritans rejoiced that they didn't have to buy Chinese tubes.

    Now I see posts from people raving about the latest set of Chinese tubes they got for their Marshall because the Russian tubes are either priced out of reach or simply not available.


    Drowning man clutches at straws, film at 11.


    Meanwhile, computer technology continues to escalate in both performance and quality, while plummetting in price.
    Back in the olden days, guitar synths could not track well. There was always that slight delay between attack and response. People who don't know any better claim that digital preamps still do that today.
    People who have tried to use vsts on a computer that isn't powerful enough to run them *correctly* also note the delay between attack and reponse, and dismiss the technnology entirely.

    It takes more thought to operate a digital preamp than a tube preamp, and that's what runs a lot of puritans off. They're so used to "plug in, turn on, rock out" that they forgot hwo it was when they first got a tube amp - the EQ tweaking you had to do to dial in your sound, the subtle nuances you convinced yourself exist between 6 and 7 on each knob. Speaker swapping, 6l6 vs EL34 vs kt88 vs 12ax7 vs 12ay7 vs 12at7 vs 2 vs 1 preamp tube vs cascading gain vs coiled cables vs straight vs cloth-wrapped enamel-coated wire vs rubber-cased vs........

    If you're fiddling with an LCD screen on stage you deserve all the ridicule you get.
    If you think everyone who has a rack is going to be fiddling with their LCDs on stage during the show, you are a drowning man clutching at straws for a reason to make your anti-technology point, and it's laughably sad.

    Yes, friends and neighbors, there IS something that's just like a guitar straight into a tube amp - it's called a digital modeler. It simply takes a little more effort to set it up than "turn on, plug in, go", but once it's set up properly, then you plug in and go. Just like it was when you first got your precious tube amp.

    Yes, they have the same tactile response to gutar knob tweaks and picking attack, once the modeler is set up correctly, just like it was with your precious tube amp.

    Yes, you can nail someone's **** to the table with a digital unit through a poweramp if the modeler is set up properly, just like it was when you first got your precious tube amp.


    Take your tube amp into a different environment and spend a few minutes tweaking the EQ to suit the room.
    Or simply select the room model from your LCD and plug in and go.


    As for small acts (duos and whatnot that were mentioned), people get more exposure from studio tracks they post on their Myspace page. When their small cadre of fans go see them at the coffee shop, they expect to hear it like they heard it on Myspace, not "the true live experience". Ergo, they need portable processing power.
    While garage monkeys with their trap kit, Epi and Squire instruments and little ProJrs can take their setup into bigger garages and sound the same, that's a totally different scene.

    If you need digital modeling to do screamo/punk, you have a mental issue.
    What's this... another modeler vs. tube thread where the name-calling makes an appearance?

    Some of your rhetoric is as inflamatory on one side as Crusty's is on the other.

    There are valid points on both sides and some of us happen to value both technologies and their use without resorting to ripping one side or the other.

    There are "religious fanatics" on both sides of the issue. Fortunately, many of us happen to enjoy it all and take what value and use we can get from all of it and are grateful that it's all there for us.
    "Always remember... all you do in life, comes back to you" - Roy Kahn, formerly of Kamelot, during the intro to "Karma" on their One Cold Winter's Night DVD

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  12. #52
    GumbyLoveologist wahwah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by JOLLY View Post
    Strats are better than Les Pauls.
    I say, I say, that boy's about as sharp as a sack of wet mice. Sharp as a bowling ball.

    I bet your nose grew a few inches when you typed that.

    Sig'd for posterity though, thanks.




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    Quote Originally Posted by JOLLY View Post
    Strats are better than Les Pauls.

  13. #53
    He Did the Monster Mash DrNewcenstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Label View Post
    What's this... another modeler vs. tube thread where the name-calling makes an appearance?

    Some of your rhetoric is as inflamatory on one side as Crusty's is on the other.

    There are valid points on both sides and some of us happen to value both technologies and their use without resorting to ripping one side or the other.

    There are "religious fanatics" on both sides of the issue. Fortunately, many of us happen to enjoy it all and take what value and use we can get from all of it and are grateful that it's all there for us.
    I'm not anti-tube or overly-pro-digital. I simply do not hold with the wholesale dismissal of current technology based on those "things" that came out in the 80s, and I do not like to let tube puritans forget how quickly they changed from "anti-Chinese tubes" in such a hurry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Note View Post
    I'm soooooo jealous about the WR-1. It's the perfect guitar; fantastic to play, balances well even when seated and *great* reach for the upper frets. The sound is bright tight and very articulate. In summary it could only be more awesome if it had b00bs and was on fire!
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by wahwah View Post
    I say, I say, that boy's about as sharp as a sack of wet mice. Sharp as a bowling ball.

    I bet your nose grew a few inches when you typed that.

    Sig'd for posterity though, thanks.




    Cheers......................................... wahwah

    LOL... I do believe that Jolly's quote was sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek directed at illustrating the futility/silliness of the tubes vs. modelers debate.
    "Always remember... all you do in life, comes back to you" - Roy Kahn, formerly of Kamelot, during the intro to "Karma" on their One Cold Winter's Night DVD

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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Label View Post
    LOL... I do believe that Jolly's quote was sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek directed at illustrating the futility/silliness of the tubes vs. modelers debate.
    That would be correct. And the Foghorn Leghorn reference has another source elsewhere in this forum.

    But I wasn't going to miss the opportunity to sig it. He's gonna love it in a few days time.




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    Quote Originally Posted by JOLLY View Post
    Strats are better than Les Pauls.

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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewcenstein View Post
    I remember some years ago when all the tube puritans swore they'd never buy Chinese tubes. RCA and all the old greats stopped making tubes, and the supply of NOS tubes grew shorter and shorter and prices went higher and higher.

    Then the Wall fell and someone found a Soviet warehouse full of vintage tubes and the puritans rejoiced that they didn't have to buy Chinese tubes.

    Now I see posts from people raving about the latest set of Chinese tubes they got for their Marshall because the Russian tubes are either priced out of reach or simply not available.


    Drowning man clutches at straws, film at 11.


    Meanwhile, computer technology continues to escalate in both performance and quality, while plummetting in price.
    Back in the olden days, guitar synths could not track well. There was always that slight delay between attack and response. People who don't know any better claim that digital preamps still do that today.
    People who have tried to use vsts on a computer that isn't powerful enough to run them *correctly* also note the delay between attack and reponse, and dismiss the technnology entirely.

    It takes more thought to operate a digital preamp than a tube preamp, and that's what runs a lot of puritans off. They're so used to "plug in, turn on, rock out" that they forgot hwo it was when they first got a tube amp - the EQ tweaking you had to do to dial in your sound, the subtle nuances you convinced yourself exist between 6 and 7 on each knob. Speaker swapping, 6l6 vs EL34 vs kt88 vs 12ax7 vs 12ay7 vs 12at7 vs 2 vs 1 preamp tube vs cascading gain vs coiled cables vs straight vs cloth-wrapped enamel-coated wire vs rubber-cased vs........

    If you're fiddling with an LCD screen on stage you deserve all the ridicule you get.
    If you think everyone who has a rack is going to be fiddling with their LCDs on stage during the show, you are a drowning man clutching at straws for a reason to make your anti-technology point, and it's laughably sad.

    Yes, friends and neighbors, there IS something that's just like a guitar straight into a tube amp - it's called a digital modeler. It simply takes a little more effort to set it up than "turn on, plug in, go", but once it's set up properly, then you plug in and go. Just like it was when you first got your precious tube amp.

    Yes, they have the same tactile response to gutar knob tweaks and picking attack, once the modeler is set up correctly, just like it was with your precious tube amp.

    Yes, you can nail someone's **** to the table with a digital unit through a poweramp if the modeler is set up properly, just like it was when you first got your precious tube amp.


    Take your tube amp into a different environment and spend a few minutes tweaking the EQ to suit the room.
    Or simply select the room model from your LCD and plug in and go.


    As for small acts (duos and whatnot that were mentioned), people get more exposure from studio tracks they post on their Myspace page. When their small cadre of fans go see them at the coffee shop, they expect to hear it like they heard it on Myspace, not "the true live experience". Ergo, they need portable processing power.
    While garage monkeys with their trap kit, Epi and Squire instruments and little ProJrs can take their setup into bigger garages and sound the same, that's a totally different scene.

    If you need digital modeling to do screamo/punk, you have a mental issue.
    You can join my blocklist. Your arrogance and condescending tone are not impressing anyone. If you had anything of substance to back up your position you would not need to go immediately to the childish name calling.

  17. #57
    Super Simonologist JOLLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by wahwah View Post
    I say, I say, that boy's about as sharp as a sack of wet mice. Sharp as a bowling ball.
    Someone's been reading formula73's posts.

  18. #58
    Super Toneologist voggin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Totally off topic, but my favourite FH quote is "I say, that hen is like the road from Dallas to Fort Worth...No Curves"

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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by grumptruck View Post
    Dr. is very experienced in sound engineering btw.

    Cadre isn't a slur.
    1)So what? What you do is not who you are.

    2) Who said it was?
    Last edited by AudioWonderland; 05-26-2011 at 12:25 PM.

  20. #60
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Red_Label's Avatar
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    Default Re: Axe-Fx... taking over the planet or urban myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
    You can join my blocklist. Your arrogance and condescending tone are not impressing anyone. If you had anything of substance to back up your position you would not need to go immediately to the childish name calling.
    LOL... who's NOT on your block list at this point?

    "Always remember... all you do in life, comes back to you" - Roy Kahn, formerly of Kamelot, during the intro to "Karma" on their One Cold Winter's Night DVD

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