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Thread: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

  1. #61
    Li'l Junior Member MetalManiac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie's ghost View Post
    I There are probably a dozen or so companies like Kimber who have similar backgrounds and reputations making audiophile cables; they're not the only show in town.
    I figured as much. I was hyping them to play up my argument.
    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  2. #62
    Ultimate Tone Slacker eschoendorff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    I just read through all four pages of this thread. The flaws in the initial premise were exposed over and over again. Ths best part was the email sent from a company (whose sole purpose is to make money selling their wares) posted in support of the original idea.

    Seriously???

    There is just so much dumb in this thread that I cannot look away!

  3. #63
    Jessie's ghost
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    My thoughts go like this : how many pedals do you have between the guitar and amp ? Now, suppose you lose 1% of your signal at each jack plug/socket connection. You could easily be losing ten per cent of your precious signal before it even gets into the amp. With a bunch of pedals, you could be losing twenty per cent.

    and what quality of wire do you have inside your guitar ? How good are the solder joints ? How old are the solder joints (because they deteriorate with age).

    Then you have to think about every component and every solder joint inside the amp. And the transformers. The quality of the tube pin connections in the tube sockets. Then the quality of the output plugs and sockets. And the solder joints.

    So audiophile speaker wire is not going to make much difference when all the stuff i mention comes before the speaker wiring and is more critical.

    Besides all of that, guitar amps partly sound the way we like due to some audio imperfections, like the mismatch in the phase inverter circuits and output transformer windings for example. Make a guitar amp too 'audiophile-friendly' and it may well lose some of the characteristics guitar players love about them.


    Might be worth thinking about anyway.
    Some people can take the fun out of anything. You can't worry about A, because B makes more of a difference. You can't worry about B because A and C make more of a difference. Etc.

    But what if Uncy Jer wants to worry about A right now, and worry about B and C some other time? It's his A to worry about, isn't it?

    I'm always hearing things like, "Well, a different bridge on your Jackson won't make a sonic difference, because of all the distortion and effects that most metal players use." Really? How 'bout the mild crunch and zero pedals that I use 95% of the time?

    Or, "Don't worry about the wood your guitar is made of, or the finish on it, because swapping out the pots for some nerdtacular specialized pots will make more of a difference." I doubt it.

    Imagine that -- someone disagreeing with you on what makes a difference (and what doesn't) in guitar tone. Call the police or something, I guess.

    On the other hand, Crusty, I like your point about guitar tone being fundamentally different from high-end audio. With hi-fi, we're generally trying to reproduce accurately a sound that has already been made and recorded. In playing guitar, we are the ones doing the creating, and it's up to us to decide what it's supposed to sound like. (Slavishly chasing someone else's tone notwithstanding.) Distortions and "inaccuracies" might be exactly what we're looking for. As Crusty alluded, if your guitar's signal chain had perfectly flat frequency response and zero distortion, you'd probably toss it over in favor of another instrument.

  4. #64
    Jessie's ghost
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by eschoendorff View Post
    I just read through all four pages of this thread. The flaws in the initial premise were exposed over and over again. Ths best part was the email sent from a company (whose sole purpose is to make money selling their wares) posted in support of the original idea.

    Seriously???

    There is just so much dumb in this thread that I cannot look away!
    Yes, and because I like dweebing around with this stuff despite the sensible advice of others who are deeply concerned about how I spend my discretionary income, that makes me "dumb".

  5. #65
    Ultimate Tone Slacker eschoendorff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie's ghost View Post
    Yes, and because I like dweebing around with this stuff despite the sensible advice of others who are deeply concerned about how I spend my discretionary income, that makes me "dumb".
    I didn't call anyone dumb. And I could care less what you spend your money on.

    However, if someone wants to "chase rainbows," so be it. But, by posting about it on a forum, that person just made it everyone's business.

  6. #66
    Minion of One Andrew Lamprecht's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    My thoughts go like this : how many pedals do you have between the guitar and amp ? Now, suppose you lose 1% of your signal at each jack plug/socket connection. You could easily be losing ten per cent of your precious signal before it even gets into the amp. With a bunch of pedals, you could be losing twenty per cent.

    and what quality of wire do you have inside your guitar ? How good are the solder joints ? How old are the solder joints (because they deteriorate with age).

    Then you have to think about every component and every solder joint inside the amp. And the transformers. The quality of the tube pin connections in the tube sockets. Then the quality of the output plugs and sockets. And the solder joints.

    So audiophile speaker wire is not going to make much difference when all the stuff i mention comes before the speaker wiring and is more critical.

    Besides all of that, guitar amps partly sound the way we like due to some audio imperfections, like the mismatch in the phase inverter circuits and output transformer windings for example. Make a guitar amp too 'audiophile-friendly' and it may well lose some of the characteristics guitar players love about them.


    Might be worth thinking about anyway.
    This is true.......
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  7. #67
    Minion of One Andrew Lamprecht's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    I do think that the idea of listening to a company WHO IS TRYING TO MAKE MONEY AND SELL A PRODUCT shouldn't be your first choice for advice on that specific product.... it is usually biased.
    Quote Originally Posted by Good Will Hunting
    Real loss is only possible when you love something more than you love yourself.

  8. #68
    Jessie's ghost
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Lamprecht View Post
    I do think that the idea of listening to a company WHO IS TRYING TO MAKE MONEY AND SELL A PRODUCT shouldn't be your first choice for advice on that specific product.... it is usually biased.
    People on forums can be biased, too, as we often have our own personal agendas. We want people to agree with us, or to perceive us as knowledgeable and relevant. Not to discount the bias that Andrew is talking about among cable manufacturers, as I think both are very real.

  9. #69
    Vintageologist crusty philtrum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    I'm not sure my previous post conveyed my point very well.

    What i was alluding to is that if you want to obsess about things, it needs to be done in order ... most likely, the order of the signal chain. The best amp and speakers in the world will be kind of wasted if the input from the guitar or pedal chain is compromised. Thus, one of the very last things to worry about is exotic speaker cable, when regular mains voltage cable used to link the amp to the speakers seems to show no signal degradation. If the sound is compromised before the speaker cable, the best you can expect from expensive cable is a perfect reproduction of a less-than-ideal sound.

    To be honest, improving your playing will make a bigger improvement to the sound than throwing a bunch of money at speaker cable. But of course many people prefer to avoid that minor detail.
    Last edited by crusty philtrum; 10-15-2011 at 04:24 AM.
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  10. #70
    Jessie's ghost
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    I'm not sure my previous post conveyed my point very well.

    What i was alluding to is that if you want to obsess about things, it needs to be done in order ... most likely, the order of the signal chain. The best amp and speakers in the world will be kind of wasted if the input from the guitar or pedal chain is compromised. Thus, one of the very last things to worry about is exotic speaker cable, when regular mains voltage cable used to link the amp to the speakers seems to show no signal degradation. If the sound is compromised before the speaker cable, the best you can expect from expensive cable is a perfect reproduction of a less-than-ideal sound.

    To be honest, improving your playing will make a bigger improvement to the sound than throwing a bunch of money at speaker cable. But of course many people prefer to avoid that minor detail.
    All very true. But tinkerers usually prefer to tinker with what's in front of them. When we happen to have a speaker cabinet open, we notice the wire and think, "Is that wire good enough?" So maybe we throw time and money at it, just to have something to do. We're not thinking about the cabling on the pedal board, the I/O jacks on the pedals, or the magnetic fields from the steel underwires in the bras the women are wearing in the neighboring flats. But we should. We should think about those bras.

  11. #71
    Ultimate Tone Slacker eschoendorff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    I'm not sure my previous post conveyed my point very well.

    What i was alluding to is that if you want to obsess about things, it needs to be done in order ... most likely, the order of the signal chain. The best amp and speakers in the world will be kind of wasted if the input from the guitar or pedal chain is compromised. Thus, one of the very last things to worry about is exotic speaker cable, when regular mains voltage cable used to link the amp to the speakers seems to show no signal degradation. If the sound is compromised before the speaker cable, the best you can expect from expensive cable is a perfect reproduction of a less-than-ideal sound.

    To be honest, improving your playing will make a bigger improvement to the sound than throwing a bunch of money at speaker cable. But of course many people prefer to avoid that minor detail.
    Well said, my friend.

  12. #72
    Guitaris Maximus Stratman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Next trick that you will read is...

    That speaker manufacturers will use is that the wire from the speaker lugs to the voice coil is made from oxygen-free 99% pure copper that has been cryogenically processed with a proprietary silver coating on the speaker leads...

    These speaker leads are made by a special department within Monster Cable's Gyungzhou, China processing plant and only cost 99.99 per inch, plus tax and are only available from speaker manufacturers as a special order as a change from speakers made in China!

    Of course, this is all a joke meant to pick fun of people who believe everything that they read on the internet.

    Keep up with the internet BS and believe all marketing hype and crap, guys!

    OR

    Use your ears and listen!
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  13. #73
    Li'l Junior Member MetalManiac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Kay guys, so...thought I'd throw another log on this fore that'd died..

    Just ordered this Harness for my 2x12 bassman cabinet. Besides the fact I woulda made a freakin' mess of trying to solder a 10 gauge wire, the wire itself is high Quality Mogami, and I got a little break on the guys price since I am the one who got him started on the 2x12 harnesses. A plug for him..he also puts together 4x12 harnesses.
    So..just another reason MY tone is better than yours. Will be running *this cable in a 68 Bassman Cabinet using one 12" Eminence Alnico Hempcone Canis Major, and one Jensen P12N Alnico speaker together. Should be a great sounding cabinet.;

    *
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-GAUGE-MOG...#ht_622wt_1177

    Its THIS Mogami wire;
    http://www.proaudiosolutions.com/pro...8110-164ft.htm


    ..Now all I need is a set of Zephyrs!
    Last edited by MetalManiac; 10-22-2011 at 05:48 PM.
    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    I'll throw a log on your arson fire......that is some of the worst money you will ever spend.
    Best

  15. #75
    Li'l Junior Member MetalManiac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by zzmoore View Post
    I'll throw a log on your arson fire......that is some of the worst money you will ever spend.
    Best
    Did you not read *this? Thanks for throwing a frog on the lyre. And My Arse-on fire.
    ( Actually, just a pro-wired harness with normal 10 guage wire would've cost 50 bucks, so for another 28 bucks I got the Mogami).
    Look, all my Marshall cabs are wired with normal Marshall wire, or replacement normal low cost heavier gauge wire, and I don't plan on changing. Just thought I'd execute this idea on this one very special Bassman cabinet with 600 dollars worth of drivers, and another 400.00 in the cabinet..why even worry about 28 bucks extra for high grade wire..it sure can't hurt .

    * "Low Loss - Two Conductor Flat Jacket Speaker Cables
    High density, non-plated, oxygen-free copper (OFC) strands with low capacitance provide extremely low power loss, wide bandwith, and excellent transient responce. Low wattage signal will be inhanced from this series of cables by assuring good dynamic range and damping factor of the amplifier".
    Last edited by MetalManiac; 10-22-2011 at 07:36 PM.
    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  16. #76
    Major General GAS aleclee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalManiac View Post
    Actually, just a pro-wired harness with normal 10 guage wire would've cost 50 bucks, so for another 28 bucks I got the Mogami.
    You know what they have in common? Neither one would make a tonal difference from lamp cord.

    If you don't believe me, I might have some booteek power cables to sell you.
    Quote Originally Posted by LesStrat View Post
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  17. #77
    Jessie's ghost
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    He sprayed nitro on the connectors? That'll make a great connection to the solder tabs on your speakers.

  18. #78
    Li'l Junior Member MetalManiac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by aleclee View Post
    You know what they have in common? Neither one would make a tonal difference from lamp cord.

    If you don't believe me, I might have some booteek power cables to sell you.
    I happen to think you are wrong..it all makes a difference. All these small things in the signal chain taken together add up ( again, not for death metal, but for blues, classic rock and clear pristine cleans where you have some very organic sound).
    I happen to also believe that a a hospital grade plug and a hi grade power cable, along with a Power conditioner to smooth the voltage would make substantial contribution to tone. I may look into that next.
    Best yet would be to get a seperate breaker in the house for the Amp .
    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  19. #79
    Li'l Junior Member MetalManiac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie's ghost View Post
    He sprayed nitro on the connectors? That'll make a great connection to the solder tabs on your speakers.
    Oh..thanks for pointing that out. I'll go ahead and remove that before installation! Appreciate it Ghost.
    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  20. #80
    Jessie's ghost
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    Default Re: Best Speaker Cabinet Wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalManiac View Post
    Oh..thanks for pointing that out. I'll go ahead and remove that before installation! Appreciate it Ghost.
    It's certainly possible that he covered the slide-on ends before he sprayed. I just wanted to find something to goof on, is all.

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