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Thread: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

  1. #1
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    Default Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Hi!

    A small gift to MJ Alnico II pro fans and the Duncan online archives.





    Most of you know me from amp modding and guitar building.
    But as some of you know I also own over 20 MJ wound pre-1988 Alnico II pro.
    At the moment I’m adding some zebra Alnico II pro to a Derrig looking Les paul.
    It will get correct hardware to match how the Derrig LP looked in late 1986.



    Total list of resistance and a quick color comparison of the Cream bobbin.
    IRL the difference is huge.
    One early bobbin is closer to pale pink.
    The late is more crème looking.
    The modern 1990-2008 are closer to bone white.
    The slash bobbin from a 2010 Gibson VOS AFD is more light yellow cream then bone.



    Neck output (Advertised as 7.6K)
    Measured at 21 celcius

    NECK
    1986-1987 Big logo, square bobbin hole, (butyrate bobbin?)
    7.05k
    7.1k
    7.15k
    7.15k
    7.2k
    7.35k
    7.6k
    7.7k
    7.77k

    1988 Small logo, square bobbin hole, (nylon bobbin?)

    7.2k
    7.25k
    7.3k

    1990-2008 Small logo, ring around square bobbin hole, (ABS bobbin?)

    7.3k
    7.3k
    7.3k


    BRIDGE output (Advertised as 7.85K)

    1986-1987 Big logo, square bobbin hole, (butyrate bobbin?)
    7.7k
    7.8k
    7.9k
    8.4k

    1990-2008 Small logo, ring around square bobbin hole, (ABS bobbin?)
    8.05k
    8.1k
    8.1k


    Slash 2010 , ring around square bobbin hole, (ABS bobbin?)

    Neck
    8.0k
    7.9k

    Slash 2010 , ring around square bobbin hole, (ABS bobbin?)

    Bridge
    8.4k
    8.7k

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Found this in a 8000$ afd produced in 300 vos before mass production launced the aph2 world wide.
    It had 2 stickers ... took a peak.
    Had a laugh


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Found a couple of zebra 1986 MJ APH1B.
    One got a dead coil and really Weak magnet.
    Guess it spent some time in someones part drawer.

    Talked to MJ and she told me to send it to her for some service!

  4. #4
    Mojo's Minions
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    I'm certainly no Slash fan, mind you; but I certainly AM a MJ fan and the picture and the specs of your little collection is of great use to me, and I guess for all p'up aficionados out there as well.

    I'd like to personally thank you for posting this. Much appreciated!

    Yours very truly,

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    Professional Scapegoat BloodRose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    ditto and welcome to the forum!
    Believe me when I say that some of the most amazing music in history was made on equipment that's not as good as what you own right now.

    Jol Dantzig

  6. #6
    Ultimate Tone Member CountFeedback's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013


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    Snickerdoodle Milk jaybonitrane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Thats a nice paul too.
    Quote Originally Posted by longcat View Post
    either way...cracker-y goodness.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Found a ”mystery” pickup that I bought online.





    But I bet 100$ it’s a 1986 APHINJ and not a "SH1N" as the permanent marker says
    SH1N sticker is a bit smaller ~half the size.
    Bobbins with square hole (not Square with ring like 59n) and correct material = 1986
    Long leg big logo = 1986
    APH1 86-88 wire
    And notice the large sticker glue residue pattern on the back = matches APH1NJ sticker
    And it reads ~7.1k
    So it matches all the characteristics of a 1986 APH1NJ.

    Any thoughts of my theories from Lt Kojak and the rest of the forum vintage crew?
    Last edited by gibsonclassic2001; 06-20-2013 at 04:33 AM. Reason: SH1N

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    but I certainly AM a MJ fan
    OT: I have a long legs late '80s JB, there's a sticker with "JBJ" on the back side, is it from MJ, right? thx

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by marcello252 View Post
    OT: I have a long legs late '80s JB, there's a sticker with "JBJ" on the back side, is it from MJ, right? thx
    Right!

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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by gibsonclassic2001 View Post
    Any thoughts of my theories from Lt Kojak and the rest of the forum vintage crew?
    Well, the biggest tell is the wire. A SH-1n is wired with Plain Enamel wire (PE) and the APH with Single Poly Nylon (SPN).

    The color of both wires is different.

    HTH,

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    Well, the biggest tell is the wire. A SH-1n is wired with Plain Enamel wire (PE) and the APH with Single Poly Nylon (SPN).

    The color of both wires is different.

    HTH,
    Its red poly.

  13. #13
    Let it B JeffB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    AHA!!!!!

    First of all thanks for posting.

    Second, Poly wire. I was not aware of this previously. Never even really thought about the APH series not being PE. Now I know why in some ways my Slash set reminds me of a set of T tops.
    I'm an internet person. All we do is waste time evaluating things that have next-to-zero real world significance.

    Remember, it's just a plank of wood. YOU have to find the music in it - The Telecaster Handbook

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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by gibsonclassic2001 View Post
    Its red poly.
    There you go!

  15. #15
    PRSlustologist Luke Duke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Your earliest ones that you asked about the bobbin material MIGHT be nylon. I found out from MJ in Dallas that some of the old pickups like mine (The JB Model) used nylon bobbins. It seems like that was between butyrate and poly. If your pickup doesn't "smell funny" and is an older model then it's either early poly or it's nylon.
    Luke
    “That which we do for ourselves dies with us … that which we do for others lives forever.”

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Duke View Post
    Your earliest ones that you asked about the bobbin material MIGHT be nylon. I found out from MJ in Dallas that some of the old pickups like mine (The JB Model) used nylon bobbins. It seems like that was between butyrate and poly. If your pickup doesn't "smell funny" and is an older model then it's either early poly or it's nylon.
    Luke
    The shape is also a bit different 86 vs 88.
    Square hole and bobbin radius is different.

    Ill try to take a picture of a 86 vs 88.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    If you eeeeeever want to get rid of that double creme....
    “That which we do for ourselves dies with us … that which we do for others lives forever.”

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Slash once called me about doing a signature pickup. I asked him, "Well, what is there about the APH-1 that you don't like? Let's start from there." He said, "The tone is great. But I wish it just had a little more punch." I said, "Maybe we can just replace the Alnico 2 magnet with an Alnico 5." He said, "Whatever you think." I said, "Let me run my theory past the engineers and see what they say." He said, "OK, call me back."

    I went to R&D to have a chat with Kevin Beller. I started to tell him what Slash was looking for and before I could even finish, he said, "Why don't you just replace the magnet with an Alnico 5?" I said, "Great. That's what I was thinking."

    Then I went downstairs to the Custom Shop where Seymour was working with MJ in the background. Again, I launched into my story and before I could finish it, Seymour said, "Ev, why don't you just use an Alnico 5?" I said, "Perfect. That's exactly what I was thinking and Kevin said the same thing."

    MJ, who had been totally silent during this exchange, looked up at me from behind her winding machine and said, "Congratulations. You just invented the Jazz Model."

    We all had a good laugh. We were so focused on giving Slash his sound, we forgot that the pickup already existed. In the end, and after trying the Jazz Model, Slash decided to stick with the APH-1. When I asked him about it a few months later, he said, "The APH-1 is perfect. And you can't improve on perfect."

    Several years passed before we started working on the APH-2 Slash project which Chet Haun brought to me and again, was based on a slightly punchier APH-2 -- though this time we kept the Alnico 2 magnet and messed around with the coils.

    To gibsonclassic2001, welcome to the forum. Are you the one who loaned some 1986 APH-1s to Slash and me to use in the initial sound testing for the pickup that eventually became the APH-2?
    Evan Skopp, Inside Track International
    Sales and marketing reps for D'Addario, Musopia, Reunion Blues, Q-Parts, and Nukleus Pickups.

  19. #19
    Fuzzy. Guitars the guy who invented fire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Skopp View Post
    Slash once called me about doing a signature pickup. I asked him, "Well, what is there about the APH-1 that you don't like? Let's start from there." He said, "The tone is great. But I wish it just had a little more punch." I said, "Maybe we can just replace the Alnico 2 magnet with an Alnico 5." He said, "Whatever you think." I said, "Let me run my theory past the engineers and see what they say." He said, "OK, call me back."

    I went to R&D to have a chat with Kevin Beller. I started to tell him what Slash was looking for and before I could even finish, he said, "Why don't you just replace the magnet with an Alnico 5?" I said, "Great. That's what I was thinking."

    Then I went downstairs to the Custom Shop where Seymour was working with MJ in the background. Again, I launched into my story and before I could finish it, Seymour said, "Ev, why don't you just use an Alnico 5?" I said, "Perfect. That's exactly what I was thinking and Kevin said the same thing."

    MJ, who had been totally silent during this exchange, looked up at me from behind her winding machine and said, "Congratulations. You just invented the Jazz Model."

    We all had a good laugh. We were so focused on giving Slash his sound, we forgot that the pickup already existed. In the end, and after trying the Jazz Model, Slash decided to stick with the APH-1. When I asked him about it a few months later, he said, "The APH-1 is perfect. And you can't improve on perfect."

    Several years passed before we started working on the APH-2 Slash project which Chet Haun brought to me and again, was based on a slightly punchier APH-2.

    To gibsonclassic2001, welcome to the forum. Are you the one who loaned some 1986 APH-1s to Slash and me to use in the initial sound testing for the pickup that eventually became the APH-2?
    CAN WE PLEASE ARCHIVE THIS POST...I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS THAT THE ALNICO II PRO AND THE JAZZ ARE THE SAME COILS ONLY TO BE MET WITH ALL KINDS OF REACTIONS...BUT TO ALL THE NAYSAYERS PLEASE READ THE ABOVE POST AND THEN FEEL FREE TO FORWARD YOUR APOLOGIES TO MY PM IN BOX.

    KOJAK...YES I AM TALKING TO YOU.
    Last edited by the guy who invented fire; 06-20-2013 at 06:11 PM.

  20. #20
    Fuzzy. Guitars the guy who invented fire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Where did everybody go???

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