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Thread: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

  1. #21
    PRSlustologist Luke Duke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Skopp View Post
    Slash once called me about doing a signature pickup. I asked him, "Well, what is there about the APH-1 that you don't like? Let's start from there." He said, "The tone is great. But I wish it just had a little more punch." I said, "Maybe we can just replace the Alnico 2 magnet with an Alnico 5." He said, "Whatever you think." I said, "Let me run my theory past the engineers and see what they say." He said, "OK, call me back."

    I went to R&D to have a chat with Kevin Beller. I started to tell him what Slash was looking for and before I could even finish, he said, "Why don't you just replace the magnet with an Alnico 5?" I said, "Great. That's what I was thinking."

    Then I went downstairs to the Custom Shop where Seymour was working with MJ in the background. Again, I launched into my story and before I could finish it, Seymour said, "Ev, why don't you just use an Alnico 5?" I said, "Perfect. That's exactly what I was thinking and Kevin said the same thing."

    MJ, who had been totally silent during this exchange, looked up at me from behind her winding machine and said, "Congratulations. You just invented the Jazz Model."

    We all had a good laugh. We were so focused on giving Slash his sound, we forgot that the pickup already existed. In the end, and after trying the Jazz Model, Slash decided to stick with the APH-1. When I asked him about it a few months later, he said, "The APH-1 is perfect. And you can't improve on perfect."

    Several years passed before we started working on the APH-2 Slash project which Chet Haun brought to me and again, was based on a slightly punchier APH-2 -- though this time we kept the Alnico 2 magnet and messed around with the coils.

    To gibsonclassic2001, welcome to the forum. Are you the one who loaned some 1986 APH-1s to Slash and me to use in the initial sound testing for the pickup that eventually became the APH-2?
    Great story Evan.

    On a personal note....it feels nice to be validated.
    “That which we do for ourselves dies with us … that which we do for others lives forever.”

  2. #22
    Super Simonologist JOLLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    No wonder I've always been in love with the Jazz Model and Alnico II Pro.

  3. #23
    Fuzzy. Guitars the guy who invented fire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    After all the back and fourth over the years nobody has a word to say now??

    Come on guys...this is breaking SD News!!!

    I want to hear from all the mag swappers that swear that their alnico 5 Alnico II Pro's are slightly sweater than the Jazz or the alnico 2 Jazz users that swear they are different in some way than a stock Alnico II Pro...

    Better yet...I want to hear from the guys that are still convinced that they are different pickups!!!

    Come on guys...where you all at?!

  4. #24
    Mojo's Minions
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    Better yet...I want to hear from the guys that are still convinced that they are different pickups!!!

    Come on guys...where you all at?!
    That would be me, I guess.

    I, just as the next guy, love a good story. I still remember my grandma and the Tooth Fairy.

    Nice story, it still today gets told to children. But that's all it is: a story. Like what the Bible and other religious books tell us. There are all stories. To believe on them is in most cases, an act of faith.

    In my case, I grew up loving numbers. Because what they tell are not stories, they don't lie. They don't even know the very concept of lying.

    I have my numbers, and what they tell me is what I believe. And I don't care what the others TELL ME, if they don't have the numbers to back their claims up.

    Call me pragmatic, if you will. I'd take it as a cumpliment!

    Got my asbestos suit and underware ready, so let the flame war begin!
    Last edited by LtKojak; 06-21-2013 at 07:55 AM.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    1986 zebra rev.zebra mounted!

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Couple of more aph and a set aph slash

  7. #27
    Mojo's Minions
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    In the above picture, counting from the right, the second lowest and the second highest p'ups, seem that the coils are butyrate-made.

    Is it possible to find a stock APH with butyrate bobbins?

    Inquiring minds would like to know.
    Last edited by LtKojak; 06-21-2013 at 08:15 AM.

  8. #28
    Baron Von Shred Zerberus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    I have my numbers, and what they tell me is what I believe. And I don't care what the others TELL ME, if they don't have the numbers to back their claims up.
    ROFL. MJ has been winding these for what, 30+ years?

    With all due respect, she would probably say then exact same thing, pull out her little book of "how to make pickup X like a boss" (which contains said numbers, the recipe for the secret sauce, and much more), point to the pages about the Jazz and A2P, and pour herself another wine made from the tears of thousands people that have been proven wrong by it.
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  9. #29
    Let it B JeffB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    You little kids who wanna argue about how big your weeweeis, take your toys to another sandbox amd stop crapping up a good informative thread frrom the OP and Evan. God knows we get very few of these in the forum anymore.
    I'm an internet person. All we do is waste time evaluating things that have next-to-zero real world significance.

    Remember, it's just a plank of wood. YOU have to find the music in it - The Telecaster Handbook

  10. #30
    Mojo's Minions
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerberus View Post
    ROFL. MJ has been winding these for what, 30+ years?

    With all due respect, she would probably say then exact same thing, pull out her little book of "how to make pickup X like a boss" (which contains said numbers, the recipe for the secret sauce, and much more), point to the pages about the Jazz and A2P, and pour herself another wine made from the tears of thousands people that have been proven wrong by it.
    Zerb, that's not the point.

    Whatever is told 'bout any Duncan product, by a Duncan employee, 'bout anything specific of any product, due to the liability clause built into any contractual nature treating products covered by industrial property laws, is BOUND to be BS. A lot of it is already is out there, (Custom family, fx) so I don't think they're interested in expose what they've worked so hard to obtain for so many years.

    To every single question, the only possible answer is "we can't confirm, nor deny".

    Plus, These kind of anecdotal hearsay makes a pretty darned good foundation for "emotional marketing".

    It's a win-win situation!

    HTH,

  11. #31
    Mojo's Minions Edgecrusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    Zerb, that's not the point.

    Whatever is told 'bout any Duncan product, by a Duncan employee, 'bout anything specific of any product, due to the liability clause built into any contractual nature treating products covered by industrial property laws, is BOUND to be BS. A lot of it is already is out there, (Custom family, fx) so I don't think they're interested in expose what they've worked so hard to obtain for so many years.

    To every single question, the only possible answer is "we can't confirm, nor deny".

    Plus, These kind of anecdotal hearsay makes a pretty darned good foundation for "emotional marketing".

    It's a win-win situation!

    HTH,
    So with that your saying that all the people who say "Well MJ told me...." are really participating in her misinformation campaign?
    "It keeps you fit - the alcohol, nasty women, sweat on stage, bad food - it's all very good for you." -Bon Scott

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  12. #32
    Ultimate Kitten Puncher King IzzO)))'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLZ!!!

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    In the above picture, counting from the right, the second lowest and the second highest p'ups, seem that the coils are butyrate-made.

    Is it possible to find a stock APH with butyrate bobbins?

    Inquiring minds would like to know.
    5/12 =butyrate
    4/12 = modern
    3/12 = nylon

    Quiz of the week.
    Try to find the butyrate!

  14. #34
    Mojo's Minions
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    So with that your saying that all the people who say "Well MJ told me...." are really participating in her misinformation campaign?
    Unknowingly, but yes; that's the whole point. People simply LOVE to tell others something only he/she would know, LOL!

    If you wanna some piece of specific info spread like wildfire, you choose a subject and thell him/her "let's what I'm going to tell you remain between you and me".

    Then you relax and have fun watching the flames rise up to the skies, so to speak.

    This was even referenced in Machiavelli's book "The Prince", written in 1512 and published in 1532.

    It's been around by exactly 500 years, I'd hardly call it a "new concept"!

    If you give people a choice, they'll always choose BS over the truth. Even if they consciously know they're being BS'ed.

    And to finish in style, guitar players are one of the worst BS lovers, right after Audiophiles, that is.

    They'll pay any kind of dough to get just any kind of new gear that allow'em to sound just like before, with their old gear, even if it sucked to start with!

    I wouldn't have it any other way!
    Last edited by LtKojak; 06-21-2013 at 12:16 PM.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Can someone from SD crew confirm the jazz vs aph.
    The resistance is the same.

    But my vintage jazz A2 test do not sound exactly the same as vintage aph.

    R8 with double black aph1bj /nj butyrate bobbin.
    7.25k 8.0k set from 1986.

    Sweet child o mine tone.
    Last edited by gibsonclassic2001; 06-21-2013 at 01:25 PM. Reason: aph

  16. #36
    Ultimate Kitten Puncher King IzzO)))'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Does it really matter? It's close enough is all anyone really needs to concern themselves with.

    I'll bet those pro II's don't all sound exactly the same either.

  17. #37
    Fuzzy. Guitars the guy who invented fire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by gibsonclassic2001 View Post
    Can someone from SD crew confirm the jazz vs aph.
    The resistance is the same.

    But my vintage jazz A2 test do not sound exactly the same as vintage aph.

    R8 with double black aph1bj /nj butyrate bobbin.
    7.25k 8.0k set from 1986.

    Sweet child o mine tone.
    Read the thread, Evan said in this thread that the Alnico II Pro and Jazz are the same coils. It's not going to get much more clear than that.

    You can believe Lt. Kojak if you want but last time I checked he doesn't work for SD or any pickup company and since he's been asked several times by myself and others for his proof and he refuses to share I call him out right now...he is just plain wrong.

    Nice guitar by the way.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by the guy who invented fire View Post
    Read the thread, Evan said in this thread that the Alnico II Pro and Jazz are the same coils. It's not going to get much more clear than that.

    You can believe Lt. Kojak if you want but last time I checked he doesn't work for SD or any pickup company and since he's been asked several times by myself and others for his proof and he refuses to share I call him out right now...he is just plain wrong.

    Nice guitar by the way.

    So then it might be the small difference that existed between individual pickups back in those days.
    Im getting a 4th double cream from 85 to double test.
    Should arrive on monday. Found it in germany.

    I did a modern jazz vs aph test a year ago.
    The neck jazz A2 sounded Kinda similar.
    Closer spec with modern machines.

  19. #39
    Ultimate Kitten Puncher King IzzO)))'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    OP has quite a collection of pro II's and is obviously a Slash fanboy, cool. His thread doesn't need to be overun with a Christian v. Pepe smackdown. You guys are in a pissing contest for no reason. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, I couldn't care less which one of you had it right because while you two were argueing about it I actually tried it, and guess what? The correct answer is "close enough".

    Why don't you two get on your webcams and have a face to face yo momma contest and leave the rest of us out of it? Better yet, post that chiz in the sound room so we can all laugh at you acting like school children.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Tribute to MJ wound Alnico II pro from 1986 to 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by King IzzO))) View Post
    Does it really matter? It's close enough is all anyone really needs to concern themselves with.

    I'll bet those pro II's don't all sound exactly the same either.
    True , ill post a 6 pickups test.
    8.4k over wound / gauge max spec tolerance down to 7.6k bridge.

    Btw on the 3 sub 7.9k i own Its often one coil that reads a tad lower.
    I bet it got same number of turns but with more/less wire pre tension.

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