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Thread: Seymour Duncan mV Data

  1. #1
    SD Media Manager Scott Olson's Avatar
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    Default Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Good afternoon forum friends, as many of you know we are deep in the midst of a website design (and yes for those of you rolling your eyes, it has been an extraordinarily long journey as we completely re-design, record and sample our many, many pickups). I wanted to give you guys a peak at some upcoming mV data. You all know the limitations of using DC resistance as an indicator of output, a much better indicator is mV. We've devised a precise and repeatable method for testing pickup output which we believe corresponds closely to actual playing. We start with a Telecaster that has an oversized cavity routed to allow easy pickup installation. The guitar is carefully tuned to standard tuning (consistent tuning is important). We add a custom machined, mechanical, spring loaded strum arm with a tempered, .004” thick spring steel pick. We install the pickup, setting the distance from the top of the pickup to the string to .093” +/- .010” (consistent set-up is essential). We then load and release the strum arm, capturing the result on a digital storage oscilloscope. We perform this process 5 times for a 3 pickup sample lot and average the results. This is repeated for every model we make.

    I'm happy to be able to share some of this data with you today. I appreciate you guys being cool and patient with us as we work to give you all the tools you could ever want to make the best selection.

    mV:

    SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
    SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
    SH-2n Jazz Model 501
    SH-2b Jazz Model 571
    SH-3 Stag Mag 389
    SH-4 JB Model 737
    SH-5 Duncan Custom 784
    7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
    8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
    SH-6b Duncan Distortion 792
    7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
    8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
    7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
    8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
    SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
    7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
    8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
    SH-8SGn Synyster Gates,&Chr,Neck 491
    SH-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
    SH-8n Invader 491
    7Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
    8Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
    7Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
    8Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
    SH-8b Invader 813
    7Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
    8Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
    SM-2n Custom Mini-Humbkr 216
    SM-2b Custom Mini-Humbkr 327
    SM-3n Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 330
    SM-3b Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 354
    SH-PG1n Pearly Gates 513
    SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
    SH-10n Full Shred 709
    SH-10b Full Shred 724
    SH-11 Custom Custom 574
    PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
    PA-TB1n Original Parallel Axis 515
    PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
    PA-STK1n Parallel Axis Stack 291
    PA-TB3b Blues Saraceno Model 694
    SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500
    SH-13 Dimebucker 1160
    SH-14 Custom 5 Black 646
    SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
    SH-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
    SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
    SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
    Black Winter, HB Neck 744
    Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
    7Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
    7Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
    8Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
    8Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
    6Str Pegasus Brg. 555
    7Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
    8Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
    7Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
    8Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
    6Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
    7Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
    8Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
    7Str Nazgūl Brg, Pmt 666
    8Str Nazgūl Brg, Pmt 666
    6Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
    7Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
    8Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
    7Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
    8Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
    Jason Becker - bridge Black 582
    TB-59 '59 Trembucker 593
    TB-4 JB Trembucker 737
    TB-5 Duncan Custom Trembkr 784
    TB-6 Duncan Distortion Trmbkr 792
    TB-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
    TB-PG1b Pearly Gates Trembkr 543
    TB-APH1B Alnc II Trembucker 499
    TB-10 Full Shred Trembucker 724
    TB-11 Custom Custom Trembkr 574
    TB-12 Screamin' Demon Trembkr 500
    TB-14 Custom 5 Trembkr Black 646
    TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
    TB-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
    Black Winter, TB Bridge 763
    Pegasus Trembucker, Bridge 555
    Nazgul Trembucker, Bridge 666
    Jason Becker - TB bridge Black 582
    APH-1n Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 452
    APH-1b Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 499
    APH-2n Slash Alnc II Pro HB 475
    APH-2b Slash Alnc II Pro HB 524
    LW-CH2n,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 534
    LW-CH2b,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 936
    LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,n 1080
    LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,b 1368
    AHB-1n Blackouts, Neck 1283
    AHB-1b Blackouts, Bridge 1598
    AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Nk 1283
    AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Br 1598
    AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Nk 1283
    AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Br 1598
    AHB-2b Blackouts Metal HB 3648
    AHB-1n Blackouts, 8strg, Neck 1283
    AHB-1b Blackouts, 8strg, Bridge 1598
    AHB-3n MickT Blackouts HB Neck Bk 1079
    AHB-3b MickT Blackouts HB Bridge Bk 1419
    AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1079
    AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1419
    AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1079
    AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1419
    AHB-10n Blackouts Coil Pack Nk 1829
    AHB-10b Blackouts Coil Pack Brg 1870
    AHB-11n Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Nk 1725
    AHB-11b Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Brg 1784
    SH-1n '59 Model 7-Strg 572
    SH-1b '59 Model 7-Strg 593
    SH-2n Jazz Model 7-Strg 501
    SH-4 JB Model 7-Strg 737
    SH-5 Duncan Custom 7-Strg 784
    SH-10n Full Shred Neck 7-Str 709
    SH-10b Full Shred Brg 7-Str 958
    SH-14 Custom 5 7-Str 646

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    Last edited by Scott Olson; 08-01-2014 at 12:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Archer250's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Olson View Post
    We install the pickup, setting the distance from the top of the pickup to the string to .093” +/- .010” (consistent set-up is essential). We then load and release the strum arm, capturing the result on a digital storage oscilloscope. We perform this process 5 times for a 3 pickup sample lot and average the results. This is repeated for every model we make.

    You might want to post this as a disclaimer on your site, because someone WILL compare the results to DiMarzio's... and I'm a bit surprised that the Custom and the FullShred have higher readings than the JB (and in the Full Shred's case, even the Distortion!)
    Last edited by Archer250; 07-31-2014 at 04:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Myaccount876 View Post
    Attenuators are for pussies. Neighbors calling the cops isn't a problem - if the cops can actually still decipher the neighbor's complaint on the phone with the Marshall in the background, you're doing it wrong and it needs to be louder.

  3. #3
    Slutbucker Pimpologist ArtieToo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    I was surprised by the Full Shred too. Almost a full volt.

    The Dimebucker, however, did just what I expected. >1-volt.

  4. #4
    SD Media Manager Scott Olson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Quote Originally Posted by Archer250 View Post
    You might want to post this as a disclaimer on your site, because someone WILL compare the results to DiMarzio's... and I'm a bit surprised that the Custom and the FullShred have higher readings than the JB (and in the Full Shred's case, even the Distortion!)
    We should have a link there that explains this in even more detail and our methodology and I'll make sure we include something that it shouldn't be compared for other brands, just for comparison between SD pickups.

  5. #5
    of the Forum PFDarkside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Thanks again Scott! Seymour Duncan, great as always!

    Looking forward to Strat and Tele pickups.
    Last edited by PFDarkside; 07-31-2014 at 05:12 PM.
    Oh no.....


    Oh Yeah!

  6. #6
    Imperator of Indignation idsnowdog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Olson View Post
    Good afternoon forum friends, as many of you know we are deep in the midst of a website design (and yes for those of you rolling your eyes, it has been an extraordinarily long journey as we completely re-design, record and sample our many, many pickups). I wanted to give you guys a peak at some upcoming mV data. You all know the limitations of using DC resistance as an indicator of output, a much better indicator is mV. We've devised a precise and repeatable method for testing pickup output which we believe corresponds closely to actual playing. We start with a Telecaster that has an oversized cavity routed to allow easy pickup installation. The guitar is carefully tuned to standard tuning (consistent tuning is important). We add a custom machined, mechanical, spring loaded strum arm with a tempered, .004” thick spring steel pick. We install the pickup, setting the distance from the top of the pickup to the string to .093” +/- .010” (consistent set-up is essential). We then load and release the strum arm, capturing the result on a digital storage oscilloscope. We perform this process 5 times for a 3 pickup sample lot and average the results. This is repeated for every model we make.

    I'm happy to be able to share some of this data with you today. I appreciate you guys being cool and patient with us as we work to give you all the tools you could ever want to make the best selection.

    mV:

    SH-1n '59 Model 572
    SH-1b '59 Model 593
    SM-1n Vntg Mini-Humbkr 324
    SM-1b Vntg Mini-Humbkr 353
    SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
    SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 396
    SH-2n Jazz Model 501
    SH-2b Jazz Model 571
    SH-3 Stag Mag 361
    SH-4 JB Model 737
    SH-5 Duncan Custom 784
    7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
    8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
    SH-6b Duncan Distortion 792
    7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
    8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
    7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
    8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
    SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
    7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
    8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
    SH-8SGn Synyster Gates,&Chr,Neck 491
    SH-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
    SH-8n Invader 491
    7Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
    8Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
    7Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
    8Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
    SH-8b Invader 813
    7Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
    8Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
    SM-2n Custom Mini-Humbkr 216
    SM-2b Custom Mini-Humbkr 327
    SM-3n Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 330
    SM-3b Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 354
    SH-PG1n Pearly Gates 513
    SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
    SH-10n Full Shred 709
    SH-10b Full Shred 964
    Description Strum
    SH-11 Custom Custom 574
    PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
    PA-TB1n Original Parallel Axis 515
    PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
    PA-STK1n Parallel Axis Stack 291
    PA-TB3b Blues Saraceno Model 694
    SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500
    SH-13 Dimebucker 1160
    SH-14 Custom 5 Black 646
    SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
    SH-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
    SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
    SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
    Black Winter, HB Neck 744
    Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
    7Str Black Winter, HB Neck 621
    7Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 719
    8Str Black Winter, HB Neck 603
    8Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 698
    6Str Pegasus Brg. 555
    7Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
    8Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
    7Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
    8Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
    6Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
    7Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
    8Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
    7Str Nazgūl Brg, Pmt 666
    8Str Nazgūl Brg, Pmt 666
    6Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
    7Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
    8Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
    7Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
    8Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
    Jason Becker - bridge Black 582
    TB-59 '59 Trembucker 593
    TB-4 JB Trembucker 737
    TB-5 Duncan Custom Trembkr 784
    TB-6 Duncan Distortion Trmbkr 792
    TB-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
    TB-PG1b Pearly Gates Trembkr 543
    TB-APH1B Alnc II Trembucker 499
    TB-10 Full Shred Trembucker 964
    TB-11 Custom Custom Trembkr 574
    TB-12 Screamin' Demon Trembkr 500
    Description Strum
    TB-14 Custom 5 Trembkr Black 646
    TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
    TB-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
    Black Winter, TB Bridge 763
    Pegasus Trembucker, Bridge 555
    Nazgul Trembucker, Bridge 666
    Jason Becker - TB bridge Black 469


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    Any chance this methodology could be expanded to show a real frequency chart?

  7. #7
    Ultimate Tone Slacker DreX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    THANKS !!1!1

  8. #8
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Archer250's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    And lol! The Nazgūl is 666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myaccount876 View Post
    Attenuators are for pussies. Neighbors calling the cops isn't a problem - if the cops can actually still decipher the neighbor's complaint on the phone with the Marshall in the background, you're doing it wrong and it needs to be louder.

  9. #9
    Let it B JeffB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    I am surprised at the Wholelottas.

    Great to see the relative comparisons. Thanks for posting it
    I'm an internet person. All we do is waste time evaluating things that have next-to-zero real world significance.

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  10. #10
    Mojo's Minions
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Quote Originally Posted by Archer250 View Post
    and I'm a bit surprised that the Custom and the FullShred have higher readings than the JB (and in the Full Shred's case, even the Distortion!)
    I'm with you in that.

    I have FS next to a JB in 2 guitars (identical guitar specs) and I'm not seeing it. To narrow it down further, both JBs are made by MJ, both with the older TB4J sticker and both FS are made by MJ - one with the same era sticker as the JB and one made a few month ago in the CS.

    Actually played one of those just today.

    Seems like many people are suggesting that data be revisited.

  11. #11
    Ultimate Tone Slacker DreX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Are the mV's at peak resonance? One possible problem in terms of using this for comparisons is that the output voltage varies by frequency, and perceived loudness might be impacted by the frequency at which the peak occurs. 500 mV at 1kHz might sound loud and full, but 500 mV at 6kHz might sound weak and piercing. In general, a pickup with a lower, more widely distributed output across the operative frequency range will sound louder than one with a higher output in a more narrow frequency range. That could be why a pickup like the WLH sounds louder than the measurement indicates.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    I have compared the JB, Custom, Black Winter, and Full Shred in my SL2H and the Full Shred definitely doesn't have more output than any of those IMO. Strange that it tested as such. According to that data, the Full Shred is second only to the Dimebucker in output.

  13. #13
    Super Toneologist Gibson 1964's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Nazgul cracks me up. The fact that the BW measures as less than a distortion surprises me.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    That list is really surprising. Full Shred has more output than Distortion and Invader. 59 has more output than Screamin Demon and Custom Custom. The standard Perpetual Burn has a lot more output than the trembucker version.
    It's very strange. I think some of the data might be wrong.

  15. #15
    MonkeyDungologist dr. ad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    tell us more about the Description Strum

  16. #16
    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Ok, I guess I'm just going to have to get a Dimebucker. Maybe with a Sentient neck?

  17. #17
    Mojo's Minions masta' c's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    This is a huge step in the right direction. Thank you for putting in the effort to give us this!

    I'm assuming these results are based on whichever frequency measured strongest for each individual model (rather than choosing a specific frequency to measure all models at)?

    Very interesting to see the Demon, Pearly Gates and PATB-3 models compared this way.

    On a side note...I think there may be a typo on the TB-15 Alt 8 measurement compared to the SH-15 and also the two Jason Becker versions (TB and SH).
    Last edited by masta' c; 07-31-2014 at 11:55 PM.

  18. #18
    Slutbucker Pimpologist ArtieToo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Also, it would be nice to see how the actives "measure up".

  19. #19
    Desert RATT Chris of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffB View Post
    I am surprised at the Wholelottas.

    Great to see the relative comparisons. Thanks for posting it
    Me too, I was fully expecting them to read a good bit higher than the 59's - I demanded a recount
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  20. #20
    Ultimate Tone Member Dahla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris of Arabia View Post
    Me too, I was fully expecting them to read a good bit higher than the 59's - I demanded a recount
    Why? It's just a relative number. Compare it to Seth's instead.


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