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Thread: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

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    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    True, but on the other hand it's been my experience (on forums like this) that while modeler's (or cheap SS) are great platforms for starting out, most new players do eventually tend to upgrade to tube amps within a couple of years..whether they're Windsors or lunchboxes or w/e..no matter whether they're rocking in the bedroom or on stage..
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Question:

    If I’m playing a modeling amp, will upgrading pickups make any difference?


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    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Yeah..it should. At least I think so...different pup's into my Zoom modeler definitely do.
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
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    Mojo's Minions Ayrton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Quote Originally Posted by UTGrad View Post
    Question:

    If I’m playing a modeling amp, will upgrading pickups make any difference?


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    No more than any other amp. Modeling is more about effects and different amplifier sounds. Think of pickups as an extension of the guitars natural sound.
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    Ultimate Tone Slacker dave74's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...


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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Yeah, no.....
    I live in Northern New Hampshire, we shoot the things we don't understand here???

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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Changing pickups will have the same effect no matter what kind of amp you prefer. The technology of the amp these days doesn't negate the pickup sound...not like in the first generation modelers.
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    Mojo's Minions dystrust's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    Changing pickups will have the same effect no matter what kind of amp you prefer. The technology of the amp these days doesn't negate the pickup sound...not like in the first generation modelers.
    While it's true that pickup swaps will still make a difference, it may not make the same difference that it does through a 'real' amp. That's only going to be a problem if you have several amps and nuances like that bother you.

    I frequently use modelers for late night practice or to record a quick song demo, and will occasionally grab a different guitar than I would have playing through an amp for just that reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

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    Mojo's Minions Diego's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    In my experience, bad pickups tend to sound not-as-bad through a modeling rig, while sounding like dog **** into a tube amp.
    So I think digital rigs don't pick nuances in pickup differences nearly as well as analog systems, be it solid state or tube.

    Not to say they don't make a difference. It's just not that noticeable.
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Quote Originally Posted by Diego View Post
    In my experience, bad pickups tend to sound not-as-bad through a modeling rig, while sounding like dog **** into a tube amp.
    So I think digital rigs don't pick nuances in pickup differences nearly as well as analog systems, be it solid state or tube.

    Not to say they don't make a difference. It's just not that noticeable.
    This is not my experience at all with my Fractal. It reacts to pickup swaps just like the tube amp I have.
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    Mojo's Minions Lewguitar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    This is not my experience at all with my Fractal. It reacts to pickup swaps just like the tube amp I have.
    So does my Mustang III.

    No issues whatsoever.

    I play through my tube amps more often than I do my Mustang at the moment, but that’s mostly because I just picked up another ‘56 Gibson GA20.

    Love those little suckers! 😘
    Last edited by Lewguitar; 02-13-2018 at 07:18 AM.
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Ya gotta fiddle with the fiddly bits.

    Edgar Winter didn't get his awesome and groundbreaking ARP 2600 tone without fiddling with the fiddly bits.



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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewguitar View Post
    Yep.

    That’s why they’ll eventually disappear.

    If only guitar players use tubes, that’s not really much of a market.

    And if that market shrinks because modelers like the Mustang III get better and better (and simpler and simpler...and cheaper and cheaper...$325 for a Mustang III)...bye bye tubes.

    All things must pass.

    You don’t see many mandolin orchestras anymore...altho I’ll admit that you see a lot of bluegrass bands and Americana bands.

    At least where I live.

    Truth be told, I play my acoustic guitars more than my electrics.
    Car stereo " audiophiles " have been and continue to spend huge money on tube amplifiers for their systems.
    Tubes aren't going anywhere.

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    One of Jerry's Kids Securb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewguitar View Post
    As more kids get a modeler like the Mustang as their first amp, the market for tube guitar amps is going to dry up. As demand decreases, tube manufacturers will stop making tubes...or start charging double for them.

    No more tubes...no more tube amps.

    The end is on the horizon.
    As long as guitar players aspire to sound like Jimmy Page, Slash, Hendrix and Johnny Ramone the tube will be around. Even if a modeler could emulate every aspect of a tube amp perfectly, there will always be that psychological bond to the tube amp. Even if the sound and feel was the same, some guitar players would tell you there was a difference.

    Also, if major manufacturers (Marshall, Fender) stopped making tube amps, the secondary and boutique markets would go through the roof. Once Fender started seeing people paying $3,000 - $4,000 for a used Silverface Twin the factories would be back open for business.

    Why do you think the Les Paul came back in '68. Gibson saw what used Les Pauls were fetching on the secondary market and wanted a piece of the action.

    Tube amps are going nowhere.

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    Mojo's Minions Laughing Kookaburra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    I can see modelers taking over, although I won't be giving up my Marshall clones, as they do the few tricks I like to do so well.

    However, if I got into some sort of cover situation that required many different sounds in a gig, I'd be all over a modeller.

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    Mojo's Minions Sirion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Quote Originally Posted by Securb View Post
    Why do you think the Les Paul came back in '68. Gibson saw what used Les Pauls were fetching on the secondary market and wanted a piece of the action.
    I think you are right in much of what you are saying, but this might not be directly transferable, for the simple reason that the guitar market is likely to contract rather than widen in years to come. The guitar doesn't have the same position in popular culture as it did, and whilst it is not going away, I don't think it is realistic that it will reassert the same position it had either. What will happen to used gear prices once Generation X retires I would think is something of an open question.
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    Mojo's Minions Little Pigbacon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    As a Gen-Xer, my goal is to be buried with — or under — a mountain of tube amps. I will be playing through them on my deathbed, and visitors to my hospital room will sit on Deluxe Reverbs.
    Tone is a partial differential equation. When you luck out.

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    One of Jerry's Kids Securb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirion View Post
    I think you are right in much of what you are saying, but this might not be directly transferable, for the simple reason that the guitar market is likely to contract rather than widen in years to come. The guitar doesn't have the same position in popular culture as it did, and whilst it is not going away, I don't think it is realistic that it will reassert the same position it had either. What will happen to used gear prices once Generation X retires I would think is something of an open question.
    Every few decades the guitar mania dies down a bit, and then some guitar hero revives it. In the eighties, for a while, everyone out there had a Casio keyboard and a haircut that looked like they cut it with a weedwhacker. Grunge hit and a week later the same idiots are running to the music store to get Strats and Jaguars in their flannel shirts. The guitar has been around since the 1500's it is not going anywhere nor are tube amps.

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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Quote Originally Posted by Securb View Post
    Every few decades the guitar mania dies down a bit, and then some guitar hero revives it. In the eighties, for a while, everyone out there had a Casio keyboard and a haircut that looked like they cut it with a weedwhacker. Grunge hit and a week later the same idiots are running to the music store to get Strats and Jaguars in their flannel shirts. The guitar has been around since the 1500's it is not going anywhere nor are tube amps.
    I played a Casio in the eighties, in a hair metal band, with flannel shirts
    The singer was all makeup and feathers

    We teased him relentlessly, he was unphased
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    Mojo's Minions Sirion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dr. Z says modeling amps are going to be the next wave...

    Quote Originally Posted by Securb View Post
    Every few decades the guitar mania dies down a bit, and then some guitar hero revives it. In the eighties, for a while, everyone out there had a Casio keyboard and a haircut that looked like they cut it with a weedwhacker. Grunge hit and a week later the same idiots are running to the music store to get Strats and Jaguars in their flannel shirts. The guitar has been around since the 1500's it is not going anywhere nor are tube amps.
    It is interesting that you mention the late 80s and early 90s, as guitardom seemed a lot healthier and more interesting in the former than the latter in my opinion. But that is beside the matter. It is more important that we haven't had anything like it since: I have not seen anything resembling guitar mania in at least 20 years, but rather a slow and inevitable decline.

    You are right that the guitar has a long history. For most of its history it has been a modest, unassuming instrument, with certain bouts of popularity, to be sure, but rarely sustained interest. The violin and the keyboard have historically been far more important instruments. The guitar's ascent as the instrument is a 20th-century phenomenon, which was spurred on the facts that it could be heard over other instruments when amplified, and that it is a relatively easy instrument to play and to produce – the electric guitar in particular. If, beyond the sound, ease of use and production are the chief virtues of the instrument, those same forces now work against it, when you don't even need to play an instrument to make music.

    I love the guitar, and I would love to see it revived, but at this point I have my doubts. It rather seems to me that it will take its place along the concertina, the banjo and the clarinet as instruments who are still played, but whose repertoires and styles are quite clearly defined, and whose mainstream appeal is limited. The plus side is that more cool, old instruments will become available as players retire, sell their collections or die.
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