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Thread: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

  1. #1
    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    2 amps(PRRI and home built SE KT66, both cranked up to overdrive), 1 Boss RV-3 pedal(on the SE KT66...got the idea of using two mics on a 3 speaker thread ...so two mics...played a mish mash of different stuff hoping the variety would add detail to the two seperate amps...it came out all mushed together...any ideas would be appreciated...it is an MP3 shared link on a google drive in hopes that the quality is better than youTube:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KcX...ew?usp=sharing

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Blille's Avatar
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    Default help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    So your chain is guitar to RV3 then split into two amps and recorded in one take? Two mics on the KT66, one in the PRRI? (Can’t hear recording yet, hope to follow up).
    Last edited by Blille; 09-10-2018 at 04:48 PM.

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    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    guitar split...1 direct to PRRI with reverb up...1 to RV3 then to KT66...1 mic each on PRRI and KT66...

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Blille's Avatar
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    Default help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Just heard it. Does it sound good in person or do you have phase issues between the amps? Maybe the RV3 flips the phase?

    If you want to sound big I would try to add short delay (30ms) to one and pan to opposite sides to see if you like it. I would also try with/without RV3 in the chain.

    From there then you can put them closer, emphasize specific bands you like more /less in each amp etc

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    Tone Member jtees4's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Sounds pretty good, turn down the bass and it will clear up some...or a lot.
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    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Quote Originally Posted by jtees4 View Post
    Sounds pretty good, turn down the bass and it will clear up some...or a lot.
    that is the SE KT66...has .1 coupling caps like the 5E3...so a little bassy by nature....no tone control...could change out the caps to .047 or .033s...but maybe just work on getting one amp at a time to sound good...think this mic stuff is too complicated for me...
    thanks for the input!!!

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    Mojo's Minions Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    My assessment is that the frequency range of the two amps is stepping on each other. That's why it sounds like mush. Try hard panning the amps - one left and one right.
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    Mojo's Minions devastone's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    I'll try to listen to the track later, but this helps understand why a soundman would not be willing to use multiple mics. Mic'ing is an art unto itself.

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Swampy's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
    My assessment is that the frequency range of the two amps is stepping on each other. That's why it sounds like mush. Try hard panning the amps - one left and one right.
    Yes, try this. Cool playing though, kind of Cantrell-ish to my ears.

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    Mojo's Minions devastone's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    I agree with the above, it needs separation, try panning left and right, maybe not 100% each side, maybe start ~75/25.

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    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Quote Originally Posted by devastone View Post
    I agree with the above, it needs separation, try panning left and right, maybe not 100% each side, maybe start ~75/25.
    I agree with your initial assertion...2 mics is an art that takes a very special skill mixed in...well beyond my abilities...going for plan II one mic and two very different sounding sources...

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    Mojo's Minions devastone's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    No, I said mic'ing is an art, figuring out how to get a good tone with one mic is the best place to start.

    I am confused again, if you have 2 different sources, I would use 2 mics, or record them one at a time, otherwise you are more trying to organize bleed. Again, work with one mic and one source at a time until you get that down.

    I am not an expert or engineer, but I can get acceptable results. What kind of mics are you using? A good place to start, especially if I have to set up quick with a SM57 or similar, is the mic 2 fingers away from the speaker, pointing about midway between the center and the edge. From there you can move the mic in small increments. Closer to the center will get brighter, closer to the outside will get darker. (There is a lot more to it than that, but it's a starting point).

    https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/ho...tar-amplifier/

    https://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/t...-in-the-studio

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    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    intent is to use two amps together for one section of tune to have big sound...have A/B switch...thought getting both would be easy...not...will work on getting 1 mic to work then move on to 2 mic set up...nothing is simple when it comes to this music stuff...it's like math or something...

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Swampy's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Im assuming this to get a good recorded sound, not a live sound.

    You could try double tracking. Play through one amp while recording, then play through other amp and record that. Then pan the two tracks.

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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Guitarists - as I learned back in the early 2Ks - if you want to sound good on "tape", you gotta learn some sound engineering.

    It's a whole 'nother "instrument" to learn and by far the most expensive one if you really get into it.
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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Some micing tips:

    - The closer the microphone is to the center of the speaker, the more low end and high end will be picked up.

    - As the microphone is moved to the outside of the cone, the midrange becomes clearer in comparison.

    - In conjunction with this, the angle of the microphone in relation to the cone can also change the tone of the guitar sound.

    - Angling the microphone 45 degrees outward will reduce the upper midrange frequencies.

    - Angling the microphone 45 degrees inward will increase low midrange frequencies.

    You can try these variants to "EQ" simply by mic positioning.
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    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Thanks to all for great advice!
    After trying everything suggested here and elsewhere found what I was looking for cannot be done...big sound I hear is in three dimensions...recording is two dimensional...losing a dimension is a bummer....

  18. #18
    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    nearly had a nervous breakdown...this isn't much...but crud....this trying to record stuff is really really hard...
    Google drive link:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OwG...ew?usp=sharing

    trying to keep the Mesa Studio 22 from clipping when recording is almost impossible...it sounds fine, no clips until you try and record it...what's up with that????

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    Mojo's Minions Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Quote Originally Posted by justFred View Post
    nearly had a nervous breakdown...this isn't much...but crud....this trying to record stuff is really really hard...
    Google drive link:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OwG...ew?usp=sharing

    trying to keep the Mesa Studio 22 from clipping when recording is almost impossible...it sounds fine, no clips until you try and record it...what's up with that????
    If you're hearing clipping on the recording that you're not hearing in the room that means either the mic is clipping or the preamp is clipping. Basically you're overloading your recording gear.
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    Mojo's Minions Gtrjunior's Avatar
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    Default Re: help pleas...why did this turn to mush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swampy View Post
    Im assuming this to get a good recorded sound, not a live sound.

    You could try double tracking. Play through one amp while recording, then play through other amp and record that. Then pan the two tracks.
    This is exactly what I would do as well.
    If the OP wants an even bigger, thicker sound he can double track each guitar/amp for a total of 4 guitar tracks.

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