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Thread: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

  1. #21
    Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?





    So this week i move my phase 90 out of the loop and in front of the amp. There was such a dramatic difference in my Boss CE-2 [being wetter] without the 90 parked in front i had to lower the internal trim pot on the Boss 2 days ago.
    Well it was still too wet and i had to back off the trim pot again today to maybe 1/8th open to find the sweet spot.
    Thats how big a difference that made.
    I had been running the 90 in the loop for at least 3 years.
    Also i had not run my Onfloor Audio Tube Boost Overdrive with my MESA Dual Rec had it in storage, and holy sheep**** what a combo.
    The OFA is back on my board with a Vengence.
    Last edited by JMP/HBE; 12-14-2018 at 01:22 PM.

  2. #22
    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    At one point I had 12 Boss pedals running in front of my amp. Boss makes an OK buffered bypass, but the difference between running that and plugging straight into the amp was unreal.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    At one point I had 12 Boss pedals running in front of my amp. Boss makes an OK buffered bypass, but the difference between running that and plugging straight into the amp was unreal.
    Hah! 12? Even Steve Vai doesnt do that!

  4. #24
    Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    Hah! 12? Even Steve Vai doesnt do that!


    Vai has the Axe FX with 300 patches.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post


    Vai has the Axe FX with 300 patches.
    Yeah -PATCHES and multiple paths to multiple amps. -he doesn't just layout 12 in a row normally or all the time -he picks and choses and patches them in to mitigate exactly what Mr GuitarStv was referring to.

    Have to admit that Meme made my post worth it.

  6. #26
    Super Toneologist Dave Locher's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    I never use more than a couple pedals but I generally hate buffered pedals because I don't WANT to keep my high frequencies intact. Of course I also don't want to completely smother them, either, like my old Ross Distortion did. Slightly smothered is my goal.
    There is an interesting Wampler video where he plugs in a few Boss pedals and switches a bypass on and off. Really a night-and-day difference. I can't figure out how to link using this tablet, but if you go to YouTube and search "Wampler buffer" it's the first one that comes up.
    Last edited by Dave Locher; 12-14-2018 at 09:25 PM.

  7. #27
    Mojo's Minions Gtrjunior's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?


  8. #28
    Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrjunior View Post
    Yeah but he has 14 pedals. No surprise there.

  9. #29
    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    input and output impedances is what it's all about.

    learn this and you will have mastered this realm.
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  10. #30
    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Hello Master!!! LOL!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    input and output impedances is what it's all about.

    learn this and you will have mastered this realm.
    Is there any way you could explain this in sort of clear and concise and layman's type terms. Believe me this is something I've wondered about (you know my setup well) and tried to "get" but man: all the stuff I've found on the Internet has just not explained things to me (at least not in PRACTICAL terms).

    Regards,

    Dale.

  11. #31
    Mojo's Minions devastone's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    The problem with the "standard" Phase 90 is that it isn't true bypase, it's what MXR calls "True Hardwire Bypass", which is misleading, and not TB. I always prefer Phase and Flange in front of the amp FWIW, but as always, YMMV.

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  12. #32
    Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    input and output impedances is what it's all about.

    learn this and you will have mastered this realm.
    Can't you just measure impedance of each pedal with a meter & use accordingly ?

  13. #33
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post
    Can't you just measure impedance of each pedal with a meter & use accordingly ?
    Well that's why I was asking. You don't even have to measure it i.e. just look at the specs. But what then (is why I was asking LLL to elaborate a bit)???

    I mean in my (short) chain I have a mixture of 1MΩ and 470kΩ pedals. Does it make a difference??? If so WHAT difference does it make??? If so does it matter which are where in the chain??? That type of thing.

  14. #34
    Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaterson View Post
    Well that's why I was asking. You don't even have to measure it i.e. just look at the specs. But what then (is why I was asking LLL to elaborate a bit)???

    I mean in my (short) chain I have a mixture of 1MΩ and 470kΩ pedals. Does it make a difference??? If so WHAT difference does it make??? If so does it matter which are where in the chain??? That type of thing.
    Read my first post on page #1 about pedal order.

  15. #35
    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post
    I dealt with it this week, there is something to it for sure.
    If you mean this one (the above) then I'm (still) confused.

  16. #36
    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaterson View Post
    Is there any way you could explain this in sort of clear and concise and layman's type terms. Believe me this is something I've wondered about (you know my setup well) and tried to "get" but man: all the stuff I've found on the Internet has just not explained things to me (at least not in PRACTICAL terms).

    Regards,

    Dale.
    I love this article; posted it here before:

    http://screaminfx.com/tech/why-and-w...ffer-pedal.htm

    General rule of thumb: the higher the input imp. and the lower the output imp. - the better. Then the signal passes through strong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
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  17. #37
    Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaterson View Post
    If you mean this one (the above) then I'm (still) confused.
    Im sorry. read post #21 at top of page #2.

  18. #38
    Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post




    So this week i move my phase 90 out of the loop and in front of the amp. There was such a dramatic difference in my Boss CE-2 [being wetter] without the 90 parked in front i had to lower the internal trim pot on the Boss 2 days ago.
    Well it was still too wet and i had to back off the trim pot again today to maybe 1/8th open to find the sweet spot.
    Thats how big a difference that made.
    I had been running the 90 in the loop for at least 3 years.
    Also i had not run my Onfloor Audio Tube Boost Overdrive with my MESA Dual Rec had it in storage, and holy sheep**** what a combo.
    The OFA is back on my board with a Vengence.

  19. #39
    HomeGrownToneBrewologist Rich_S's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Pete Cornish wrote be-all-and-end-all paper on true bypass, though he has a strong anti-TB bias. He was the first guy I know of who points out that we don't just need to be concerned with the input and output impedances of each pedal, but the change in those impedances when we switch a pedal in or out of the chain. I've occasionally come across certain chains of pedals that would work in some combinations, but sound awful in others, losing volume and/or treble. Changing pedal order or inserting buffered pedals in between problem pairs generally solved the problems.

    Here's a link to Cornish's now-classic paper on the subject: Pete Cornish - The Case against True Bypass.

    Agree or disagree. Use true bypass if you wish. Don't if you don't. Can we stop talking about it now?
    Last edited by Rich_S; 12-15-2018 at 05:45 PM.
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  20. #40
    Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    Pete Cornish wrote be-all-and-end-all paper on true bypass, though he has a strong anti-TB bias. He was the first guy I know of who points out that we don't just need to be concerned with the input and output impedances of each pedal, but the change in those impedances when we switch a pedal in or out of the chain. I've occasionally come across certain chains of pedals that would work in some combinations, but sound awful in others, losing volume and/or treble. Changing pedal order or inserting buffered pedals in between problem pairs generally solved the problems.

    Here's a link to Cornish's now-classic paper on the subject: Pete Cornish - The Case against True Bypass.

    Agree or disagree. Use true bypass if you wish. Don't if you don't. Can we stop talking about it now?
    Whats wrong with talking about it ?

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