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Thread: Hows does your brain work

  1. #21
    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Adieu View Post
    ... BARELY?

    LOL!!! Sounds about right!!! LOL!!! Methinks that the years of abuse could play a significant role in the LATENCY between fingers and brain!!! LOL!!! Buffers are too big!!! LOL!!!

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    Mojo's Minions Gtrjunior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaterson View Post
    LOL!!! Sounds about right!!! LOL!!! Methinks that the years of abuse could play a significant role in the LATENCY between fingers and brain!!! LOL!!! Buffers are too big!!! LOL!!!
    You need to wire your brain as true bypass

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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrjunior View Post
    You need to wire your brain as true bypass
    That explains it. Obviously I’m buffering!!! See: it DOES make a difference (true bypass vs. buffered bypass) i.e. it is FACT not fiction!!! LOL!!! Now to find the dip switch (otherwise we’re talking replacement here)!!! LOL!!!
    Last edited by dpaterson; 01-24-2019 at 04:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    If I practice (repeat things to be improved) my brain starts to revolt after 10-15 minutes of grinding.

    Whenever I play for fun or I create a song I can be lost in it for many hours without any frustration or mental fatigue.

    Consequently I learned all I know by creating stuff.

    Other than that, my brain works 70% on filtering the probable visual reality out of the signal mess of aion syndrome even when eyes closed so I wouldn't waste the remaining 30% on grinding too much anyway.

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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrjunior View Post
    You need to wire your brain as true bypass
    That is what my after practice beer is for.

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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroPolo View Post
    If I practice (repeat things to be improved) my brain starts to revolt after 10-15 minutes of grinding.

    Whenever I play for fun or I create a song I can be lost in it for many hours without any frustration or mental fatigue.

    Consequently I learned all I know by creating stuff.

    Other than that, my brain works 70% on filtering the probable visual reality out of the signal mess of aion syndrome even when eyes closed so I wouldn't waste the remaining 30% on grinding too much anyway.
    Interesting you should mention stuff like this.

    My folks forced me to go through four years of music theory at some point in my youth. Got to Grade 4 Theory and Grade 7 Practical (don't quote me on this though it was a LONG LONG LONG time ago) (and talking piano here by the way). And dunno what the overseas equivalents are. All I know is that Grade 8 Licentiate was like the "max." (and then you could be qualified as a teacher or something like that). The theory nearly "did my head in" as I've always played by ear (as I said somewhere earlier: from three years old APPARENTLY). Point is: I can also sit FOR HOURS on end playing my OWN riffs and stuff. But the problem comes in when I'm trying to master OTHER peoples stuff (Dio/Campbell in particular obviously). But there's a reason for that: my OWN stuff, while it may sound great (to me anyway), is technically lacking i.e. it may sound great and melodic and heavy (and whatever else) and I may enjoy it too but for me, really, it's a cop out i.e. not where I wanna be.

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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    There's a term for what you're describing: "Automaticity." The common and INCORRECT term is "muscle memory." Muscles don't remember anything, it's your brain that remembers what your muscles are doing...

    ...AND IT REQUIRES TIME FOR THE BRAIN TO GROOVE THE MOST EFFICIENT NEURAL PATHWAYS. During this period, many people experience "flubs" until one day, it's like someone turned on a light switch.

    Athletes have to change their workout routines in the gym about every 8 to 12 weeks, because automaticity starts setting in, and that's actually the opposite of what they're looking for! Once the most efficient neural pathways have been established, only specific muscle cells are now being targeted. So, they have to change things up in order to confuse their brains and force their brains to establish new neural pathways...which then gets more of the overall muscle cells in that muscle group working. Then brain then determines which path is more efficient, and focuses primarily on that...until a change is made again.

    Things that help this "automaticity" set in...

    (1) PROPER FORM!!! "You're done with that set in the gym the moment you have to break form in order to lift it one more time, NOT when you're shaking no matter what you do to try to move it." If your hand / wrist is so tired that you have to break form, you're done.

    (2) Pick a routine, stick with it, then change it up every so often. Example: pick some chord drills and some scale drills, and do those for several weeks, until it becomes very very natural...even when you play "faster than normal playing tempo," and then change it around and pick some new drills.

    (3) Don't practice when you're tired. If you do, then lower your expectations. The brain really needs to be functioning at a high level in order for it to do the work that it needs to do in grooving these neural pathways.

    (4) Hand and wrist strength exercises when not playing will also help speed things up. The stronger the muscle group, the easier it is for the brain to groove the neural pathways in that muscle group. That being said, think of a guitar player on stage with a Les Paul Traditional after the third one-hour set that night...in other words, it's not just the hands and wrists that need strengthening.

    (5) Confidence. Send yourself positive messages. Tell yourself that you can do this. Don't get down on yourself if you miss a day; instead, do everything that you can to get back on that horse and ride. Don't get down on yourself if you keep on making the same "flub." Instead, do something like slowing down, or maybe change the tone on your metronome just to get over that hump.

    (6) "Better living through modern chemistry" doesn't mean "Better guitar playing too." Are you still making the same "flubs...???" How much did you have to drink before you started practicing...??? Try it without the booze...

    And one last thing, you probably won't find the term "automaticity" using a search engine. It's something that I read somewhere a long time ago, and it was written by a doctor. I can't remember if it was a sports psychologist, but maybe. I remember searching for that term to get some more info, and it was like the guy who wrote that piece just simply made up that word. I've never heard a better term since...other than "muscle memory," which is a bit of a misnomer: "memory of what the muscles are doing" is what it means, and yes, some people get confused and think that it's the muscles themselves knowing what's going on.

  8. #28
    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Now THAT post above is a post of note!!!

    Thank you. Very much.

    All makes absolute perfect sense.

    Certainly something to be printed out and stuck on the wall for daily reference and encouragement.

    Thanks again for taking the time and going to the trouble of detailing “automaticity”.

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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    I don't know if muscles need strength as much as dexterity. I would think dexterity exercises would be better than just strength training.
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    I play everyday, but I don't focus on anything for very long -maybe 30 -45 min max then wank off doing something else for a while -my brain needs time to dial in the information from feeling/thought to impulse to action.

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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    I don't know if muscles need strength as much as dexterity. I would think dexterity exercises would be better than just strength training.
    You're right.

    Speed and muscle strength are highly related. Dexterity is really super important. You add control over that speed, AND can make those "5 fret spans" a lot easier, AND will reduce fatigue arguably better than strength training will, AND will also reduce the risk of "overuse injury" like Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

    So, strength training for speed and to help with fatigue, dexterity training for THAT...and everything else.

    What will add distance to your tee shots on the golf course better, strength training or stretching...??? Stretching. But PGA Tour players hit the gym because that works too...

  12. #32
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    It depends on what I'm aiming to do. If it's band-related stuff then I 've got to memorize songs (not just our own ..but a lot of covers as well). so obviously I can't let my mind go blank, which on the other hand is exactly what I try to do as far as possible when I'm just jamming & improvising solo's. That's when the more I'm consciously thinking about what to do next, the more the hesitation & the wrong/crappy progressions ..ie the ****tier I end up playing. That's how I've found it goes.
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    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Hey. Thanks again for great posts.

    Tell you what's become rather evident to me on this thread (at very least) is that there's a right way and a wrong way to practice. With the exception of playing scales daily: the notion of banging something out hour after hour after hour in the hopes of getting it right and then getting frustrated (and whatever else follows) ain't the right way to try master something. Seems to me that the right way to approach this is to practice the thing for less time but more often with breaks in between??? In other words: it's not a foregone conclusion that just because you're practicing every day, for the sake of being able to say that you're practicing every day, that you're actually accomplishing anything. This being said (and I've read this somewhere else before): I think it's pretty important to just pick up your guitar daily and practice something, anything, even just scales for a little while if you're not in the mood??? In other words: practicing every day for shorter periods is better than doing it in occasional protracted bursts??? There's something else to debate maybe???

    Anyways. Once again thanks. The thread has for sure cleared up the "phenomenon" that I described in my first post i.e. was getting worried there as I though there was something wrong with me!!! LOL!!!

    Pretty amazing how it all works though huh!!! Vivian does a lot of five fret stuff. "We Rock" nearly did my head in at first (closest I've come to smashing a Jackson into a brick wall). Thought I'd never get it right. Packed it in for a few days and "as if by magic" the next time the spread just came natural (and has now "stuck") (and a great feeling) (especially given that I got small hands and this on a normal scale length as opposed to a shorter scale length and something I never thought I'd be able to do on a normal scale length).

    But please do keep these posts coming. To begin with they're inspirational. And I know for sure I'm not the first person to wonder about this or get disheartened from time to time (only difference being I got no problem asking questions and possibly publicly humiliating myself!!! LOL!!).

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    A little bit over a long time is infinitely better than a lot every once in a while. Just picking up your guitar is not enough though. Otherwise you end up stuck in a rut doing the same thing over and over and not really improving. It's best if you write out a plan for where you're going to focus, and update this plan every couple of months. Then you pick exercises related to the areas you've identified. This planning only needs to be done every once in a while, but without it your practice is going to be largely useless.

    If you can swing it, long daily practice sessions are great - but remember that you're human. You have to structure them as made up of many small work chunks with planned relaxation times. So you do like 5 minutes of hard scale practice, then 10 minutes of fun noodling over a progression, then 5 minutes of hard arpeggio practice, then 10 minutes of playing fun tunes that you like, then 5 minutes of learning a new lick/solo, etc. Use a stop watch to make sure that you're keeping your schedule.

    Repeating this kind of structured practice has always made the greatest gains in playing, technique, and applying theory for me.
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

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    Mojo's Minions Gtrjunior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    A little bit over a long time is infinitely better than a lot every once in a while. Just picking up your guitar is not enough though. Otherwise you end up stuck in a rut doing the same thing over and over and not really improving. It's best if you write out a plan for where you're going to focus, and update this plan every couple of months. Then you pick exercises related to the areas you've identified. This planning only needs to be done every once in a while, but without it your practice is going to be largely useless.

    If you can swing it, long daily practice sessions are great - but remember that you're human. You have to structure them as made up of many small work chunks with planned relaxation times. So you do like 5 minutes of hard scale practice, then 10 minutes of fun noodling over a progression, then 5 minutes of hard arpeggio practice, then 10 minutes of playing fun tunes that you like, then 5 minutes of learning a new lick/solo, etc. Use a stop watch to make sure that you're keeping your schedule.

    Repeating this kind of structured practice has always made the greatest gains in playing, technique, and applying theory for me.
    I agree with this approach 100%.

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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Just picking up your guitar is not enough though. Otherwise you end up stuck in a rut doing the same thing over and over and not really improving. It's best if you write out a plan for where you're going to focus, and update this plan every couple of months. Then you pick exercises related to the areas you've identified. This planning only needs to be done every once in a while, but without it your practice is going to be largely useless.
    I agree with this 100% too, and think that it's very well stated.

    it's not a foregone conclusion that just because you're practicing every day, for the sake of being able to say that you're practicing every day, that you're actually accomplishing anything. This being said (and I've read this somewhere else before): I think it's pretty important to just pick up your guitar daily and practice something, anything, even just scales for a little while if you're not in the mood???
    ,
    I agree with this statement conditionally, but I do agree.

    Not in the mood...??? There's an acronym for people like me who need to check themselves before they wreck themselves: "H.A.L.T." = Hungry Angry Lonely Tired. Are you not in the mood because you're hungry, angry, lonely, or tired...??? Then HALT!!! If I'm there, then there are things on the guitar that I simply should not attempt. At that point, all I got is "easy strumming songs" and that's about it. Now it's not "practice," and I don't consider it as such.

    Therapy. That's what I'd call it at THAT point.

    The cool thing about turning "practice" into "therapy" when all I'm emotionally capable of is jackin' around on the guitar is that the guitar has become my friend instead of my adversary. I now trust the guitar, because it doesn't make me do something that I don't want to do at that time, and can revert back to my roots of learning to play. And hey, check it out, who needs a capo for Hotel California when you can do barre chords like a real guitar player...!!! Now I can find peace and happiness not just listening to myself play the guitar ("music soothes the savage beast"), but I can also look back to 15 years ago when I first started playing and PROUDLY see how far I've come!

    When I'm not on my game because I'm just not there emotionally, the G chord is what kills me, and it's my pinky. My pinky stays with my ring finger with all the other standard majors and minors, and now it has to split away. No it doesn't, I can put the ring finger on the B string instead, right...??? HA!!! Not...even...almost. Not if I'm truly TRULY struggling to get my pinky to hit the third fret on high e string like a champ. If I'm there, then I'm not playing a song that has a Gmaj chord in it! I'll play the song in a different key and use barre chords before I start getting mad at Jim for teaching me the OTHER way to play a Gmaj...!!!

    The next step - and this is totally important for me, and I fail at it often - is to get back into the type of practicing that led me to a lack of fear of barre chords. When I find myself "just picking the guitar up and doing whatever just to say that I did" more often than not due to emotional ability to practice, then I need to take a deep breath, and fear it. Just grab the guitar, and fear it. "You're better than me, and we both know it. Let's do this (stuff)."

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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Thanks again for the posts. What can I say??? This thread is turning out to be one of "the great threads" (for me anyway i.e. most informative while being inspiring at the same time). Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gransen View Post
    Not in the mood...??? There's an acronym for people like me who need to check themselves before they wreck themselves: "H.A.L.T." = Hungry Angry Lonely Tired. Are you not in the mood because you're hungry, angry, lonely, or tired...??? Then HALT!!! If I'm there, then there are things on the guitar that I simply should not attempt. At that point, all I got is "easy strumming songs" and that's about it. Now it's not "practice," and I don't consider it as such."
    This is GOOD sh*t (as they say in the classics)!!! It really is. As is the other stuff already posted.

    Slightly off of the topic but has relevance I think:

    One question I've asked more than once but never received an answer to is what do the Professionals do when they're "not in the mood" to actually perform??? I've always wondered about this. I mean if you're on a tour and playing a concert or two in a day: it stands to reason that you're going to be pretty exhausted (to begin with and at very least) and everybody has their good and bad days let's face it. But it's not like an office job where you can say "oh well: I'll get to it tomorrow" i.e. you've got to be "on" no matter what. Unless on their bad days they do sound bad i.e. given that I've only been able to see my "guitar hero" (LOL!!!) on DVD maybe I'm just seeing the best concert of the tour??? Obviously though: this does not just apply to guitarists i.e. cannot see Ronnie and Wendy or Ozzy and Sharon not having their "days"!!! LOL!!! I know when I'm having personal sh*t it affects me and my enthusiasm greatly. This not to mention arguments with Managers, Record Labels, infighting in the band, you know the rest... Must take some doing actually.

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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaterson View Post
    One question I've asked more than once but never received an answer to is what do the Professionals do when they're "not in the mood" to actually perform???
    I'm not a "professional" at pretty much anything, least of all playing guitar! But, I know the question, because I've had to answer that one for myself in order to survive. Example: Years ago there was two guys working in the same area, and one of them was me. I felt sorry for the other guy, because he was nice, but this world had run him over, and he was timid, and a bit of a sad sack. We were talking to some other employees, and he told a story about some harsh circumstances that he now was facing. It didn't sound good.

    Someone asked how he's able to deal with this one. He said, "Well, anytime I start getting down on myself, I just say, 'At least I'm not Gransen!'"

    So yeah, then there's that.

    Anyhow, one thing that I found that helped me was golf, which has it's own unique struggles (golf is not a sport, it's a disease). At the time, I thought that the cure for the disease was to learn about sports psychology, which was fairly new at the time (just before Tiger Woods said, "Hello world"). The first thing that I learned was that it's HUGELY important to send yourself positive messages. NEVER EVER give in. EVERY. If it looks like you're staring bogey in the face, then you need to stop right there...PLAY THE GAME ONE SHOT AT A TIME!!! Don't PLAN on getting birdie on the next hole because bogey seems inevitable on this hole...because it ain't "bogey" until the shot for par doesn't land in the cup. PERIOD.

    What if you're 100 yards off the green with a wedge in your hand, and THAT'S your shot for par...??? Take dead aim...take dead aim.

    The second thing that I learned is that "sports psychology" is really just a specialized form of "performance psychology," and that these lessons apply to virtually everything in your life.

    That being said, I've been practicing "performance psychology" for the last 20 years or so. If I personally was in a band, and we survived our first trip to the recording studio, and actually sold enough albums to go out on tour, and then it started sucking, this is what I'd probably do to make the suckiness more bearable...

    (1) Send myself positive messages...including avoiding thoughts of what I plan on doing when the tour ends. "Stay in the moment."

    (2) Find stuff to do between shows. I'd probably want to get away from the other band members from time to time.

    (3) In order to stay in my own zone, I'd ensure that the other band members understand that THEY are able to establish their own boundaries with me. "Empower those around you, and you can earn their trust." Things like admitting fault when mistakes are made, and not getting down on others when they make mistakes.

    (4) "Some people see a rose, and notice that there are thorns. I see thorns, and look for the rose." Sometimes it's not just enough to send yourself positive messages ("I can do this, so I will"). Sometimes you actually have to actively look for something positive...something TANGIBLE...something that you can hang your hat on and call it your own.

    (5) I'd recall the three best pieces of advice I've ever received in my life, and I'd figure out how they apply to this situation...

    #1: "Just act like whatever it is you're doing is what you're supposed to be doing; and if anyone questions you, just make 'em feel stupid for asking." (I watched a Private First Class pretty much spin a Staff Sergeant on his heels and walk out of the room during a quick inspection of the barracks before formation. I asked how he does that stuff. That's what he said.)

    #2: "Finish the race...even when you know that you've lost. And DO NOT stop running BEFORE the finish line, you can stop running when you're TWO STEPS past the finish line." (I got that from a gym teacher in high school, and then from my drill sergeant a few years later. That WAS the best advice I'd EVER received...until that one day mentioned above.)

    #3: "Gransen, there's something you have to remember: these people are stupid." (Yeah, I always forget that.)

    That's MY take on the question. And since I'm still alive to be able to tell it - despite being close to death several times, including that one time when I died and woke up in the hospital the next day with a tube down my throat - I'm going to say that I'm doing a pretty good job.
    Last edited by Gransen; 02-06-2019 at 12:52 AM.

  20. #40
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    I just pick up a guitar and jam when I can these days. If I'm in a rut then it's a rut I'm happy with. Always been most into players that were instantly recognizable for their own style and the fact is they're the ones that made a mark/went down in history. Used to be a time 20+ years ago when I was into systematic practice & into scales & theory...but I've long since been done with that.

    In my case it was the passage of time & carpal tunnel syndrome along with the 5 year break that that resulted in which set me on a different path. Stopped trying to stuff my playing with exotic scales & timings & other clever stuff and just played what flowed...left it all to my ears & fingers.

    Yeah, I'm grateful for the finger exercises that gave me a good measure of dexterity back in the day (don't do them any more), but otherwise the other stuff I was wasting my time with (scales, theory) I've come to realize was more a hindrance for me personally than anything. My brain could never process that stuff quick enough to make it useful in any kind of practical sense for me to achieve the kind of fluidity & flow I was looking for. Not saying there are'nt players who can do that, I just am not one of them.

    Most players tend to concentrate on the physical aspect of guitar playing & ignore the really important thing which I think is the mental one. Physical training can only take you so far. In the end it's your brain telling your fingers what to do. The trick for me was to make that information transferring process as efficient and quick as possible by dumbing it down to a very basic/instinctual level.

    Also a little common sense & innovation can go a long way. Instead of torturing myself with 5-6 fret stretches I worked on a system of (tapping) using my right hand to make that stuff easier & more efficient. Now I can stretch 6-10 frets or an octave or more & double/triple my speed that way without giving myself a CTS relapse. I also rely on string bending more than most, for pretty much the same reason..if you can't reach that next fret or two ...bend the note .

    The thing is there's individual stuff, technically or otherwise players can work & focus on/modify to suit themselves depending on personal shortcomings or problems faced. I don't think there's a common approach to practice that suits every player. Everything these days is 'one size fits all' starting with what & the way you practice, which is why the end result is there's so little individuality around. You watch one youtube wonder & you've pretty much watched them all (and forgotten everything they did a moment later)...nothing much sticks out anymore...they play the same stuff with the same tone, equipment, licks, melodies & production.
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