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Thread: Hows does your brain work

  1. #41
    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    I've heard it said: Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.

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  2. #42
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Don't kid yourself ..everyone gets it wrong sometimes.

    Watch all the unedited/bootleg Vai, Petrucci, Malmsteen __________ (insert fave guitar hero/idol of your choice here) etc video's on youtube..


    Truth is...Nobody's perfect
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  3. #43
    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Perfect isn't a steady state.
    And as far as the professionals that you mentioned, I consider the incidents of their mistakes to be statistically insignificant

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  4. #44
    Administrator Mincer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    As a professional, the craft gets me though if I don't want to play for any reason: pain, tired, annoyed, etc. I mean, the craft of playing allows art to happen as well. What I play might not reach the levels I know I am capable of, but no one will notice. I try not to put myself in that position though- the moment I don't want to really do what I am doing, is the moment I need to make changes in my life.
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  5. #45
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Demanic View Post
    Perfect isn't a steady state.
    And as far as the professionals that you mentioned, I consider the incidents of their mistakes to be statistically insignificant

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    haha..come on dude. Perfect is perfect. ...ie no room for imperfection ..at all...ever.

    No amount or specific type of practice will get you there.

    Do they (Vai etc..) **** up less than the rest of us ..yeah most likely. But everyone can and does have a bad day/gig that stinks...bad notes/dud bends/****ty phrases. That stuff happens to everyone & there's no denying there's a significant difference in their playing on a lot of the bootleg stuff vs. their professionally produced stuff..(and I'm not just talking about the sound.)

    Don't think it takes anything away from them in any way... being perfect all day everyday (imo an impossibility anyway) would just mean they were playing it very very very safe indeed ..& that would be boring as ****
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

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  6. #46
    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    haha..come on dude. Perfect is perfect. ...ie no room for imperfection ..at all...ever.

    No amount or specific type of practice will get you there.

    Do they (Vai etc..) **** up less than the rest of us ..yeah most likely. But everyone can and does have a bad day/gig that stinks...bad notes/dud bends/****ty phrases. That stuff happens to everyone & there's no denying there's a significant difference in their playing on a lot of the bootleg stuff vs. their professionally produced stuff..(and I'm not just talking about the sound.)

    Don't think it takes anything away from them in any way... being perfect all day everyday (imo an impossibility anyway) would just mean they were playing it very very very safe indeed ..& that would be boring as ****
    Yes, but then, by definition what you are talking about doesn't exist in the real world. I'm not talking about some non-existent Platonic ideal. I'm talking about real life perfection, which by definition (at least my definition) is a dynamic state of movement from a greater percent error to a lesser percent error. I suppose that my definition is influenced by the concept of calculus.

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  7. #47
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    LOL! The concept of calculus? ..really??

    But yeah, you make a point. Petrucci Vai & Yngwie are probably going to be 'more perfect' & dynamically moving than the average schlub playing to trusty old Fido on the sofa..
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    Yeah, I'm grateful for the finger exercises that gave me a good measure of dexterity back in the day (don't do them any more), but otherwise the other stuff I was wasting my time with (scales, theory) I've come to realize was more a hindrance for me personally than anything. My brain could never process that stuff quick enough to make it useful in any kind of practical sense for me to achieve the kind of fluidity & flow I was looking for. Not saying there are'nt players who can do that, I just am not one of them.
    I'm into music theory, and agree with you that it can seriously get in the way.

    But, I will say that music theory combined with "guitar theory" has led me to come up with my own use of the scales. When you say "natural scale," I think: "That's the 'shred scale' along with five individual shapes that I can use when the shred scale gets me on the other side of the neck." Stuff like that. Music / guitar theory helps open up innovation in my playing. Then I try to keep it simple. When I'm playing in the natural scale, I'm thinking of the degrees of the scale, and not the intervals of the specific modes that change throughout the progression: "The first interval of a natural minor progression is 6, and the first interval of a Phrygian mode progression is 3." It's supposed to be a lower case Roman numeral "i" instead in both cases.

  9. #49
    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    I've read and re-read all of the posts above today. Probably three times so far. And am dying to contribute. But your post just popped up and I couldn't help myself i.e. oddly enough I found this on another website just this morning (and figured it would be apt):

    Name:  51474645_10156255241638251_6202717289855320064_n.jpg
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    Too funny!!! LOL!!!

    Chat soon.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    LOL! The concept of calculus? ..really??
    Yep, calculus. Hard to see it any other way when you know how calculus works. ("Trigonometry in motion.")

    And COME ON, GUYS, yes, guys like Steve Vai make less mistakes, they pick up on new stuff quicker, can problem-solve on the fly better, you name it, they're better at it! And at the end of the day, the mistakes that they actually do make get hidden by their ability to compensate on the fly. And yes, just listen to them, they ALL talk about their mistakes...and then it has to be explained to us what they did wrong because it's so well hidden!

    Steve Vai goes on "Guitar Jeopardy" and says, "I'll take 'Things Only I Know' for a thousand, Alex."

  11. #51
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Gransen View Post
    I'm into music theory, and agree with you that it can seriously get in the way.
    This
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
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  12. #52
    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaterson View Post
    Pretty amazing how it all works though huh!!! Vivian does a lot of five fret stuff. "We Rock" nearly did my head in at first (closest I've come to smashing a Jackson into a brick wall). Thought I'd never get it right. Packed it in for a few days and "as if by magic" the next time the spread just came natural (and has now "stuck") (and a great feeling) (especially given that I got small hands and this on a normal scale length as opposed to a shorter scale length and something I never thought I'd be able to do on a normal scale length).
    Not meaning to detract from the topic but felt it prudent to correct something that I posted earlier (quoting my own post above).

    Was just practicing "We Rock" (again) and just realized I'm only stretching four frets and not five (and remembered my earlier post)!!! Vivian too (in this song anyway) (main riff that is). So I'm not quite as great as I thought I was!!! LOL!!! Still. More than I could do a month or two ago. But I'll tell ya that five frets seems VERY wide for my hands on my Jacksons (on the bottom of the fretboard that is). And I'm thinking (as has been loosely mentioned earlier today) maybe one just does have to adapt fingering to get the job done i.e. use alternate fingering from their "guitar hero" simply because of physical limitations. I must say that this has always been a cause of serious frustration i.e. not being able to use the exact and correct fingering. But I would caution to try first (and give it a good try) before working out alternate fingering because it does sound different.

    One other thing that I'm constantly fighting with and that is to break a very bad habit that I developed almost from the outset i.e. Barre chords. Instead of using proper fingering (all fingers) it was easy in the beginning to just use your your index finger and ring finger (left hand) and play only the two or three relevant strings (muting the others). But you lose a lot and with a song like "We Rock" for example: it makes it impossible to play those other little pieces that are a part of the main riff (or rhythm) simply because your other fingers and not in the right place at the right time.

    Anyways. Sorry to interrupt. Just thought it was an important correction to make. Could have simply edited the original post but that would have been dishonest given that most that have made it to here will not go back and re-read old posts.

    Carry on.
    Last edited by dpaterson; 02-06-2019 at 09:17 AM.

  13. #53
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Gransen View Post
    Yep, calculus. Hard to see it any other way when you know how calculus works. ("Trigonometry in motion.")

    And COME ON, GUYS, yes, guys like Steve Vai make less mistakes, they pick up on new stuff quicker, can problem-solve on the fly better, you name it, they're better at it! And at the end of the day, the mistakes that they actually do make get hidden by their ability to compensate on the fly. And yes, just listen to them, they ALL talk about their mistakes...and then it has to be explained to us what they did wrong because it's so well hidden!

    Steve Vai goes on "Guitar Jeopardy" and says, "I'll take 'Things Only I Know' for a thousand, Alex."
    I'd say That's really what makes all the difference. Everyone makes mistakes, yes a guy like Vai nakes a lot less (lol, I see why you picked Vai over the other two guys I mentioned here) but when he does (and it's always going to happen) he can fix things pretty good. Also being as unorthodox and unique of a player he is besides being downright weird lol, he can play w/e the **** he wants to and make it sound 'right'..
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    This
    I said that music theory can seriously get in the way. You're saying that it gets in the way of your ability to smile.

    Earlier I mentioned that at times, all that I've got is something like "recreational therapy in the form of playing music," and practice can go frick itself. This thread is largely about "how to practice effectively." One thing that's being ignored is that, at some point, once the basics are learned and a person is comfortable playing songs in the privacy of their own home, it's totally TOTALLY okay to call 'er quits on learning new stuff, and just enjoy playing music.

    And in my opinion, at that point, just playing guitar will maintain your ability level, and you can call that the only practice you'll ever need.

  15. #55
    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Just thought I’d add this which I think does have bearing on this thread:

    I know some of the issues I’ve brought up are, in all probability, “old hat” to most here (as in my post above for example). But I think they have relevance. What I’m getting at is that it appears to me that it is equally difficult (if not more difficult) to unlearn bad habits that you have taught yourself as opposed to learning new stuff. I’m finding this now more and more.

    I do not consider myself a beginner by an means because I can play a lot of stuff. Problem is: it’s all been self taught and I’ve been able to get by because I am able to play by ear. Consequently: although to the uninformed (friends and family for example) it sounds fine and to them I’m just playing stuff that they are familiar with and recognize. But it is technically not correct. And easy to do. And dare I say more enjoyable to play just because it is easy to do. But when it then comes time to knuckle down and start playing proper Barre chords (or whatever) then it’s another story altogether. Now that I’m really getting down to it and serious: often, in the same song, I will start out “proper” and when I look again I’m back to fingering two or three note chords as opposed to a proper Barre chord thus inadvertently reverting back to a bad habit that is self taught.

    P.S.

    I’m not saying to play Barre chords most of the time but rather power chords but with the correct fingering i.e. that conforms to the Barre chord fingering and shape (hope that makes sense).

    P.P.S.

    Maybe what getting at in context of the most recent posts by others is that I don’t think that one can simply and totally divorce theory from practice. But once you have learned bad practice and then try to apply sound theory it then becomes a struggle which could have been avoided.
    Last edited by dpaterson; 02-06-2019 at 10:10 AM.

  16. #56
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Gransen View Post
    I said that music theory can seriously get in the way. You're saying that it gets in the way of your ability to smile.

    Earlier I mentioned that at times, all that I've got is something like "recreational therapy in the form of playing music," and practice can go frick itself. This thread is largely about "how to practice effectively." One thing that's being ignored is that, at some point, once the basics are learned and a person is comfortable playing songs in the privacy of their own home, it's totally TOTALLY okay to call 'er quits on learning new stuff, and just enjoy playing music.

    And in my opinion, at that point, just playing guitar will maintain your ability level, and you can call that the only practice you'll ever need.
    haha ..I said you were right about musical theory getting in the way ...& smiled.

    I think you're right about the rest of this post as well ..so here's another
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


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  17. #57
    Ben1962
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    haha ..I said you were right about musical theory getting in the way ...& smiled.

    I think you're right about the rest of this post as well ..so here's another
    Music theory gets in the way? You supposed to just try every different series of notes till it sounds right? I dont see how knowing Dorian has a major 6th hurts anybody. I think if its too much at once is the problem, not the theory.

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  18. #58
    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben1962 View Post
    You supposed to just try every different series of notes till it sounds right?
    Ummmnnn... Well yes!!! LOL!!! I’ve forgotten 99% of the theory learned many many years ago as mentioned earlier on this thread. But I do know when it sounds “right” (and when it sounds “wrong” or when it “fits” or when it doesn’t “fit”). Not everyone can do this let’s face it. As but one example I had the privilege of knowing somebody back then that could play anything and everything note perfect from sheet music (she reached the max. possible grades which qualified her as a teacher) (and she certainly and obviously knew her theory backwards) but she could not play by ear nor improvise naturally (and I was pretty much the total opposite).

    But I would have to agree to a large degree with the basic premise of your post. I hated theory. And forcing it to the extent that it was at the time did cause problems. But is it possible to totally divorce the two or totally disregard one in favor of the other??? Dunno. Maybe with me some of that stuff “stuck” without me actually knowing it today.
    Last edited by dpaterson; 02-06-2019 at 11:15 AM.

  19. #59
    Ben1962
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaterson View Post
    Ummmnnn... Well yes!!! LOL!!! I’ve forgotten 99% of the theory learned many many years ago as mentioned earlier on this thread. But I do know when it sounds “right” (and when it sounds “wrong” or when it “fits” or when it doesn’t “fit”). Not everyone can do this let’s face it. I had the privilege of knowing somebody back then that could play anything and everything note perfect from sheet music (she reached the max. possible grades which qualified her as a teacher) but she could not play by ear nor improvise naturally (and I was pretty much the total opposite).

    But I would have to agree to a large degree with the basic premise of your post. I hated theory. And forcing it to the extent that it was at the time did cause problems.
    Bull. You play a jam with some friends, does everybody play something and just hope it sounds ok? Or do you say to each other a blues in A? Theory is nothing more than communicating what your playing to other people

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  20. #60
    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hows does your brain work

    dunno...been noodling with the same bunch for years...goes like the drum dude starts, the bass dude goes and the rest of us just follow the bass...isn't that the way it works unless your doing some kind of set/composition/real fancy music thing???

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