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Thread: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

  1. #21
    Ultimate Tone Member audiocheck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Quote Originally Posted by some_dude View Post
    That’s not what I said at all. You should probably re-read the manual.
    From Stilletto Manual:

    PRESENCE:
    The PRESENCE Control is a high frequency attentuator that is placed at the end of each channels pre-amp stage and affects frequencies higher than those of the TREBLE Control. It acts independently of the other rotary tone controls and is crucial in voicing the channel. It is a powerful global tone control. Lower PRESENCE Control settings darken and, in fact compress the signal
    BASS MID
    which works well to fatten single note solo sounds, giving them girth and focus. Some of the best lead sounds in your Stiletto will find the PRESENCE Control in its lower regions, where a bal- anced, vocal response is achieved.
    Higher settings unleash the mighty roar of your Stiletto and this can be great for sparkling clean sounds in Channel 1 and more aggressive crunch rhythm sounds in the high gain modes. Be sure to taunt the beast that lurks in Channel 1 and 2’s CRUNCH mode as the PRESENCE is truly amazing in this most agro mode.
    [/SIZE]


    From Mark V Manual:

    This control adjusts high frequencies - above those of the TREBLE - and is located in the power section, farther downstream in the signal path, and not in the preamp. The PRESENCE adjusts a specific zone of frequencies in the negative feedback circuit of the power section that best suit the needs of each individual Mode. The MARK V incorporates substantial circuitry to achieve the complex switching of parts needed to voice each Mode correctly and ensure an adjustable range on the PRESENCE that is sound-style appropriate as well as musically usable.
    CLEAN
    TWEED EQ ON
    CH O
    CH 1
    NORMAL
    GAIN MASTER
    PRESENCE
    1 90 W
    45 10 W
    TREBLE MID BASS BOLD
    EQ FS
    You can think of the PRESENCE as a control that allows you to either clamp the power amp down,
    compressing it and darkening things - or open it up and let the full spectrum of upper harmonics come blazing through. It also has a great deal to do with how dynamic the signal is and how a sound will cut through the mix in an ensemble environment.
    At low settings (7:30 – 10:30) the sound will be warm and round with a more compressed feel and dynamic fluctuation will be limited. As the PRESENCE is increased (11:00 – 2:30), the top end starts to become more dominant and that compression gives way to “cut” and dynamic peaks jump out with startling speed and accuracy. At the top end of the control (2:30 – 5:30), a super aggressive blend of upper harmonics dominate the sound and this region can be somewhat dangerous if it’s not applied in small measures. Higher notes will slice and dice even the bravest set of ears and we suggest using this region mostly in the studio for recording heavy crunch
    PAGE 34
    FAT FAT
    frOnt panel:tHe COntrOlS (Continued)
    rhythm parts and even then – mostly on parts that feature the lower strings. This region – especially when coupled with the inherent curve of many of the microphones typically used in P.A. (sound reinforcement) applications can be truly punishing.
    We suggest using the lower to middle range of the PRESENCE (9:00 – 12:30) for the best (most balanced) sound in all of the Modes and venturing outside this only for specific applications – perhaps where you need more of an aggressive top-end point or a darker, more compressed and wider sound.
    Clean sounds in Channel 1 can generally benefit from a bit higher settings (10:30 – 12:30) than sounds in this – or any Channel - that has overdrive involved in its makeup. Once saturation begins the frequencies carried in the PRESENCE control can make things edgy or brittle... even buzzy, real fast if you aren’t careful. Overdriven chording sounds can tolerate higher settings (10:30 – 12:30) better than can single note sounds, which usually want to roam the zone below 11:00 to stay round, focused and vocal.
    NOTE: The EXTREME Mode in Channel 3 radically re-voices the negative feedback in the power section - among its many changes - and inherently contains much more of this upper harmonic region than any of the other Modes.This increase in top-end cut and ag- gression renders the PRESENCE control somewhat less active than in the other Modes because there is so much bite there already in the EXTREME Modes’ character.
    NOTE: High settings of the PRESENCE (2:30 – 5:30) can put extra stress on even borderline microphonic preamp tubes (ones that are susceptible to high pitched ringing and noise) and cause them to begin ringing or show other signs of instability. Many tests were run on the set of tubes that shipped in your MARK V to ensure they were stable at the time of construction. However, tubes are not perfect devices – much like light bulbs – and can change over time and become more microphonic. Luckily you can remedy most tube problems with a simple tube swap. Avoid these settings (especially in Combo amplifiers – where the added sympathetic and vibrational forces put even more stress on the tubes) to ensure trouble free performance.




    From TC100 Manual:

    This control adjusts high frequencies - above those of the TREBLE - and is farther downstream in the signal path than the Tone Controls at the end of the preamp. Unlike a PRESENCE circuit located in the power section, the TC-100 utilizes a preamp roll-off type PRESENCE to maintain a level of urgency and simplicity in the power section for tonal reasons. This is part of its urgent character and ability to hit so hard in the midrange frequencies.

    You can think of the PRESENCE as a control that allows you to either clamp the highs down, compressing and darkening things - or open it up and let the full spectrum of upper harmonics come blazing through. It also has a great deal to do with how dynamic the signal is and how a sound will cut through the mix in an ensemble environment.
    At low settings (7:30 – 10:30) the sound will be warm and round with a more compressed feel and dynamic fluctuation will be limited. As the PRESENCE is increased (11:00 – 2:30), the top end starts to become more dominant and that compression gives way to “cut” and dynamic peaks jump out with startling speed and accuracy. At the top end of the control (2:30 – 5:30), a super aggressive blend of upper harmonics dominate the sound and this region can be somewhat dangerous if it’s not applied in small measures. Higher notes will slice and dice even the bravest set of ears and we suggest using this region mostly in the studio for recording heavy crunch rhythm parts and even then – mostly on parts that feature the lower strings. This region – especially when coupled with the inherent curve of many of the microphones typically used in P.A. (sound reinforcement) applications can be truly punishing.
    Clean sounds in Channel 1 can generally benefit from a bit higher settings (10:30 – 12:30) than sounds in this or any Channel that has overdrive involved in its makeup. Once saturation begins the frequencies carried in the PRESENCE control can make things edgy or brittle... even buzzy, real fast if you aren’t careful. Overdriven chording sounds can tolerate higher settings (10:30 – 12:30) better than can single note sounds, which usually want to roam the zone below 11:00 to stay round, focused and vocal.


    In an earlier post, I quoted the KingSnake manual. So it appears that if Randall Smith designs an amp with a NFB loop, he has the Presence control in the Power Amp section on the NFB loop. If the Presence control is at the end of the Pre-Amp section, then there is no NFB loop.

    As you can see with the Mark V, and probably also the Recto's, Extreme channels, The NFB loop is still there, but at a minimum. Which means the switch engages a higher Value Resistor (possibly with a Capacitor as a HPF, so that the Presence control still operates) into the NFB loop.

    So maybe there is a minimum amount NFB loop in the Stilletto and Triple Crowns, but without a schematic I wouldn't venture in spending $2500 on that amp.

  2. #22
    Tone Member SAguitar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Dang, I really should have got a few Carvin amps while they were still in business. I have always been a Fender amp kind of guy, so I usually have amps in that vein. But I discovered Carvin basses a long time ago, and still have two of those and three of their guitars which are all fine instruments.
    "Live by the Groove, Die by the Groove."

  3. #23
    Raging BB Gunologist some_dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Quote Originally Posted by audiocheck View Post

    In an earlier post, I quoted the KingSnake manual. So it appears that if Randall Smith designs an amp with a NFB loop, he has the Presence control in the Power Amp section on the NFB loop. If the Presence control is at the end of the Pre-Amp section, then there is no NFB loop.
    Your assumption is incorrect.

    Re-read the Stilletto manual.
    || Guitar | Wah | Vibe | Amp ||

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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    I'm sure if you called Mesa, you could get some definitive answers.

    Personally, I don't bother with minutiae. If it sounds good, it is good. I don't need to know circuit details to make great music. YMMV.

    Bill
    When you've had budget guitars for a number of years, you may find that your old instrument is holding you back. A quality guitar can inspire you to write great songs, improve your understanding of the Gdim chord while in the Lydian Mode, cure the heartbreak of cystic acne--and help you find true love in the process.

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    Ultimate Tone Member audiocheck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Quote Originally Posted by SAguitar View Post
    Dang, I really should have got a few Carvin amps while they were still in business. I have always been a Fender amp kind of guy, so I usually have amps in that vein. But I discovered Carvin basses a long time ago, and still have two of those and three of their guitars which are all fine instruments.

    You should try and get your hands on an original 6L6 X100b. The clean channel is the best, if not better, Fender sound.

  6. #26
    Ultimate Tone Member audiocheck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogie Bill View Post
    I'm sure if you called Mesa, you could get some definitive answers.

    Personally, I don't bother with minutiae. If it sounds good, it is good. I don't need to know circuit details to make great music. YMMV.

    Bill

    As an engineer, I am always trying to figure out why I like what I like. If Boogie's cost what Carvin's did, I would simply pull the trigger. But with the TC100 being in the $2,300 range, I'm not taking any chances. I got my answers I needed concerning the Mark V25, so that is what I am going to get.

  7. #27
    Ultimate Tone Member audiocheck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Quote Originally Posted by some_dude View Post
    Your assumption is incorrect.

    Re-read the Stilletto manual.

    I have quoted the Stiletto manual above. Please post the excerpt, from the manual, that proves your point of the NFB loop being present in the Stiletto.

    Thanks

  8. #28
    Ultimate Tone Member audiocheck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Quote Originally Posted by some_dude View Post
    Your assumption is incorrect.

    Re-read the Stilletto manual.
    Okay, I found it:

    3.) Channel 1’s FAT CLEAN and TITE CLEAN modes - as part of their voicing - utilizes less negative feedback in the power stage creating a scenario of increased power sensitivity. This increased power sensitivity may not be as easy to work with when using the Stiletto as a stand alone power amp. Therefore we suggest selecting Channel 2 (any of the 3 modes) for a more traditional power sensitivity.


    So opposite the design in the Rectos, where the rectos have less NFB on the Extreme channels. Interesting.

    Now further investigating into the TC100 is needed.


    Thank you for pushing your point. Let me also mention that this was only in the Duce / Trident Manual and not in the Stage 2 or Ace manuals. I will assume it's the same for all those models?
    Last edited by audiocheck; 02-15-2019 at 07:47 AM.

  9. #29
    Ultimate Tone Member audiocheck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Well, No evidence of NFB loop found in the Triple Crown amps yet. It could be grouped in with the TIGHT switch. The Tight switch is kind of a take on Carvin's EQX switch. I will keep looking for evidence. I am guessing now that instead on No NFB loop, there is one, but minimum or switchable (less/more) via this TIGHT switch.

  10. #30
    Ultimate Tone Member audiocheck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    I found a Mark V schematic online. I saw the NFB loop and the Presence control is treated different for each of the 3 channels. there is a good amount of tone filtering going on there, even besides the Presence control.

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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    I'd like to preface this post by saying that I don't intend any offense, just making an observation/suggestion.

    You seem fixated on a particular specification, rather than the actual performance of the various amps. I've found over the years that checking my preconceived notions and just trying things has resulted in finding guitars, amps and effects that worked out far better than I would have suspected. I know it isn't entirely realistic to do a blind test of every amp, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to try out as many amps as you can find.

  12. #32
    Mojo's Minions dave74's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Carvin sends me emails all the time,,,,,,,so I don't think they are out of business. (?)

  13. #33
    Professional Scapegoat BloodRose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Its sad that Carvin has stopped building amps. Im curious if the new x1 pedal will have the same tones as the amp did. Id like to have one of the x100 amps
    Believe me when I say that some of the most amazing music in history was made on equipment that's not as good as what you own right now.

    Jol Dantzig

  14. #34
    Ultimate Tone Member audiocheck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodRose View Post
    Its sad that Carvin has stopped building amps. Im curious if the new x1 pedal will have the same tones as the amp did. Id like to have one of the x100 amps
    I'm not sure that pedal is truly on the market. Your best bet would be to run that pedal straight into a separate power amp and not treat it like a pedal. like a pedal you will be hostage to the drawbacks of what ever amp you are running it into.

    the X100b amp was like no other. Active EQ on the rotaries and high gain and voicing. It was designed by an engineer, not an amp builder.

  15. #35
    Ultimate Tone Member audiocheck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Quote Originally Posted by dave74 View Post
    Carvin sends me emails all the time,,,,,,,so I don't think they are out of business. (?)
    They are still making stuff, but not guitar amps.

  16. #36
    Ultimate Tone Member audiocheck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    Quote Originally Posted by chadd View Post
    I'd like to preface this post by saying that I don't intend any offense, just making an observation/suggestion.

    You seem fixated on a particular specification, rather than the actual performance of the various amps. I've found over the years that checking my preconceived notions and just trying things has resulted in finding guitars, amps and effects that worked out far better than I would have suspected. I know it isn't entirely realistic to do a blind test of every amp, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to try out as many amps as you can find.
    No offense taken. I have over many years, checked out the flavor of the month guitar amps. I pose this dilemma because everything falls short, for me, within a few minutes try out. Even the Carvin Vintage series was a bomb for me. I really wanted a 112 combo tears ago to make life easier and when I tried it in their shop, it didn't work for me. The V3 did, but only the 100 watt version was out at the time. I wanted something lighter. There are not a lot of places to test drive Boogies. I was lucky to be in LA a couple of years ago and got to try the Mark V25. That amp did what I needed it to do. I will own one this year, I'm sure. To take a $2,500 shot at the TC100 without a test drive, is a no go. Boogies have been been terrible experiences for me when I played through them. I will admit, that after looking at past specs., I may have had a different opinion if I played through a Mark ii C+, or a Mark iv. I have only played through their lower priced stuff. Same year I tried the V3 100, I walked 2 doors down into Boogie and played the reissued Mark i and 2 other Boogies I have long forgotten. The V3 kicked all three of their asses and at half the price!!

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    Default Re: Since Carvin is Out of Business, High gain history? and Boogie Question

    I drove an hour or so to Westchester music outside of Philly for my Road King. It looks like they have a TC and a Mark or two in stock. I'm with you on not laying out that kind of cash without plugging in, but I'm also the kind of guy that tries to plug in to stuff any time I'm on a road trip. I checked out the Fillmore when I was in DC last month. I like the concept but I'm spoiled with my four channels and it's hard to go back. And I appreciate you taking the suggestion as intended and not being offended.

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