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Thread: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

  1. #81
    Mojo's Minions Gtrjunior's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    So, explain the premise to me here...you are covering another playerís solo? Or are you playing your own solo in a particular time frame within the structure of the song....

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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    I will claim Buck Dharma's solo (the final solo) for myself. I will replicate it.

    I'll do other solos, but I just want to claim that one for now. I've always thought (even way back when it first came out) that was the tastiest solo of the whole bunch.

    Countless repeated listenings (I've heard the tune and seen the vid so many times) and my opinion is the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaterson View Post
    Matter of fact I find it ironic that all of the '80's rock and metal tone was labelled as "generic" on my Vivian Campbell thread.
    Yeah, I remember seeing the "premier" of Last In Line video... blew my mind. DIO conjured up a fire-breathing dragon with that Campbell kid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaterson View Post
    Neal Schon Solo 1 (isn't this the dude that used to play with Gary Moore???):
    Neal Schon is/was the guitarist for Journey and earlier in his teens played with Santana.

    He's also been in some one-album "super"groups like Bad English, HSAS, Hardline, etc...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrjunior View Post
    So, explain the premise to me here...you are covering another player’s solo? Or are you playing your own solo in a particular time frame within the structure of the song....
    You can do either... your own solo or a solo cover.

    All in a particular time frame ("chunk").
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
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  6. #86
    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Well this to be discussed and agreed upon by the individual guitarists.

    My personal plan was to find the same number of guitarists as in the original and cover each guitarist’s solo verbatim (subject to the below). If we didn’t find the same number of guitarists to participate then either the entire solo was shortened proportionately or our guitarists would have to cover more than one of the original guitarists (the latter being preferable in my opinion).

    @LLL should comment here on his ideas on this I think. But input and comment from all concerned both current (@greekdude) and potential participants would be most welcome.

    Regarding verbatim copying of the solos (there must be a correct word for “verbatim” here???):

    I mentioned to “make this our own”. By this I mean’t something like the Metal Allegiance collaboration of “We Rock”. In my opinion nobody in that video was trying to cover Dio EXACT, some liberties were taken with the solo and the arrangement of the solo, that type of thing. But since starting to separate these solos out I’m wondering if maybe this thing should not be covered EXACT. That is WAY more difficult and represents a huge challenge. But if pulled off: good experience and major bragging rights. To actually remember each (your) solo and then for everyone to come in and finish at the right times in such a way that everything flows and doesn’t end up sounding disjointed is no mean feat. And as good as our dude in the videos is: remember he is playing along with the original so has audible reminders and prompts for each solo. Big difference if you’re doing this with a pure backing track.

    But those are my thoughts is all. I’d just like to get the whole thing down on video i.e. I’ll just stitch all the pieces together into the one song that doesn’t look or sound disjointed (which in and of itself is not going to be simple given that this will be different footage and different audio from a number of very different sources i.e. the original was put together in the same studio being monitored every step of the way).

    P.S.

    My post above was being typed while @LLL was already responding so do take all in context.
    Last edited by dpaterson; 02-22-2019 at 06:44 AM.

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    Mojo's Minions Gtrjunior's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    So, just my opinion but I find it much more impressive to create your own solo than to copy somebody else.
    Copying does little to increase your knowledge/skill set imo. Learning to create your own within the confines of the key, I feel is much more conducive to furthering your own playing.

    Iím not saying that copying is easier or anything, but when I go see a live band (cover band) the last thing I want to see/hear is a verbatim recreation of a song. I want to hear the musicians let the song breathe and to become something more than a carbon copy.
    If I wanted to hear an exact recreation, Iíd just stay home and listen to YouTube.

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    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    Neal Schon is/was the guitarist for Journey and earlier in his teens played with Santana.

    He's also been in some one-album "super"groups like Bad English, HSAS, Hardline, etc...
    Sorry. Was thinking of Neil Carter (UFO).

  9. #89
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Ok so breaking down of the solos has been done. Check.
    Now we need a decent backing track that covers the original (the long version, with the intro clean part included). I tried to put Dale's backing track along with the original in my DAW and there was no way I could get them synchronized. I (personally) am non-pro musician, not even hitech amateur , I work on Linux with Ardour and that's all. So no fancy Mac/MS programs here. Best case Riffstation under wine emulation.
    So, what's the next step? Dale where do we record? Weekend is coming, kids and wifey are gonna be sleeping, now its the time for some action!

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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrjunior View Post
    So, just my opinion but I find it much more impressive to create your own solo than to copy somebody else.
    Copying does little to increase your knowledge/skill set imo. Learning to create your own within the confines of the key, I feel is much more conducive to furthering your own playing.

    I’m not saying that copying is easier or anything, but when I go see a live band (cover band) the last thing I want to see/hear is a verbatim recreation of a song. I want to hear the musicians let the song breathe and to become something more than a carbon copy.
    If I wanted to hear an exact recreation, I’d just stay home and listen to YouTube.
    Good point(s). Suppose you’re right. Just thinking again of Metal Allegiance. The solo parts are not exact by any means. But they are recognizable in the context of the song and have the same nuances as the original not???

    Well maybe a mixture i.e. as @LLL says it is a choice??? I suppose: think “WE’RE Stars” with the emphasis on “WE”. The song definitely does lend itself well to originality where the solos are concerned let’s face it. I for one cannot remember each and every original solo as one continuous chunk of the song (this being different from one song with one solo that fits and that you’ve practiced and are used to hearing).

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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Also what about the clean and rythm parts? I can do clean and rythm.

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    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by greekdude View Post
    Ok so breaking down of the solos has been done. Check.
    Now we need a decent backing track that covers the original (the long version, with the intro clean part included). I tried to put Dale's backing track along with the original in my DAW and there was no way I could get them synchronized. I (personally) am non-pro musician, not even hitech amateur , I work on Linux with Ardour and that's all. So no fancy Mac/MS programs here. Best case Riffstation under wine emulation.
    So, what's the next step? Dale where do we record? Weekend is coming, kids and wifey are gonna be sleeping, now its the time for some action!
    Really love your enthusiasm. It’s great.

    Not done with separating ALL the solos as yet.

    Alright. Time for me to do some serious work. I’ve only been messing around with that one MIDI track and I’m not sure if it’s the right one to use or the closest we can find to the original. Will spend some time on this now. Depending on what’s available we may have to compromise and adjust accordingly though. Or I can create an entire new MIDI backing track which is our own but do bear in mind that is definitely going to take some time. I could use Melodyne Studio to convert the original audio to MIDI but I know that there is a L-O-T of editing to be done to the resultant MIDI track i.e. it’s by no means a simple audio to MiDI conversion.

    More to follow...

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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaterson View Post
    Really love your enthusiasm. Itís great.

    Not done with separating ALL the solos as yet.

    Alright. Time for me to do some serious work. Iíve only been messing around with that one MIDI track and Iím not sure if itís the right one to use or the closest we can find to the original. Will spend some time on this now. Depending on whatís available we may have to compromise and adjust accordingly though. Or I can create an entire new MIDI backing track which is our own but do bear in mind that is definitely going to take some time. I could use Melodyne Studio to convert the original audio to MIDI but I know that there is a L-O-T of editing to be done to the resultant MIDI track i.e. itís by no means a simple audio to MiDI conversion.

    More to follow...
    Backing track -

    For the drums, I dig what you did earlier... why not use that MIDI score fed into your drum program (but change tempo to 110)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by greekdude View Post
    Also what about the clean and rythm parts? I can do clean and rythm.
    For the distorted rhythm, I think it would be interesting if you play the rhythm all the way through (mono), and I do the same (mono).

    Then we can combine both panned wide L and wide R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
    Guitaramped.com

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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Lots of logistics here...

    Firstly, someone's going to have to do DAW work and put all the contributions together with the backing track.

    Those who contribute solos will need to do so by giving the above DAW person just the solo track (not solo track + backing). Obviously, we can't add a clip that has a solo and the backing track because that will be layered on top of the backing track. Gotta think studio-wise...

    We'll need the raw .WAV file if possible... Google drive is a great way to share bigger files.

    Solo contributors could add their own effects (delay etc whatever) to their tracks, or they could choose to record dry and let the DAW person add studio FX.

    As far as whether covering the solos vs. doing your own solos, I'm cool with either way or a combination thereof.
    Lefty Lounge Lizard's Guitars & Amps Extravaganza



    Fastest ears in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
    Guitaramped.com

  16. #96
    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Someone's gotta do the bass... or we use the MIDI score for that too and spruce it up.
    Lefty Lounge Lizard's Guitars & Amps Extravaganza



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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
    Guitaramped.com

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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    For the distorted rhythm, I think it would be interesting if you play the rhythm all the way through (mono), and I do the same (mono).

    Then we can combine both panned wide L and wide R.
    Sounds just right. (well I hope it will sound just right )

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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    Lots of logistics here...

    Firstly, someone's going to have to do DAW work and put all the contributions together with the backing track.

    Those who contribute solos will need to do so by giving the above DAW person just the solo track (not solo track + backing). Obviously, we can't add a clip that has a solo and the backing track because that will be layered on top of the backing track. Gotta think studio-wise...

    We'll need the raw .WAV file if possible... Google drive is a great way to share bigger files.

    Solo contributors could add their own effects (delay etc whatever) to their tracks, or they could choose to record dry and let the DAW person add studio FX.

    As far as whether covering the solos vs. doing your own solos, I'm cool with either way or a combination thereof.
    This way we may obtain a certain level of parallelism (/concurrency) so that the solos are prepared and submitted independently and concurrently with the basis which will be the backing track + bass. Then we add the rythm guitars, then the vocals, and finally the DAW persons puts everything together.


    hmmmm

    maybe we add the rythm indepndently as well?? I am afraid that remembering all rythm just by listening to the bass will be kind of hard. So If e.g. I listen to the original and record the following tracks :
    1) clean + rythm
    2) yngwie 1
    3) yngwie 2
    and any others that might come along
    would be OK, I guess.
    Last edited by greekdude; 02-22-2019 at 09:33 AM.

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    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    Lots of logistics here...

    Firstly, someone's going to have to do DAW work and put all the contributions together with the backing track.

    Those who contribute solos will need to do so by giving the above DAW person just the solo track (not solo track + backing). Obviously, we can't add a clip that has a solo and the backing track because that will be layered on top of the backing track. Gotta think studio-wise...

    We'll need the raw .WAV file if possible... Google drive is a great way to share bigger files.

    Solo contributors could add their own effects (delay etc whatever) to their tracks, or they could choose to record dry and let the DAW person add studio FX.

    As far as whether covering the solos vs. doing your own solos, I'm cool with either way or a combination thereof.
    This is the type of thing I've been getting to.

    I'm keen to do the DAW and video editing work.

    I agree with everything said. Only thing I'd like to insist on is that all recordings are made at 48kHz/32-bit IEEE Float (the 48kHz simply being because the end result of this is hopefully going to be video) .WAV format which, unfortunately, will result in some large files.

    In addition to the above: are you guys going to make your videos at the same time or are you happy to try overdubs (effectively miming)??? Or: would you rather like to get an audio track out first and we can worry about the video at a later stage???

    As far as FX goes: use your own FX and let's see how it all stitches together. If there are problems each can just go back and remove or edit their FX and create another recording is all.

    I'm going to render out the entire MIDI file that I'm using and will upload shortly (with any further applicable explanations).

  20. #100
    Toneologist dpaterson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Can Haz Hearing Aid?

    Here (below) is the actual MIDI file (converted from Guitar Pro 7) that I've been using (for download).

    I've gone through this file and I can tell you that somebody went to a LOT of trouble to create this thing. Only credits I can find in the Guitar Pro file is to someone or something called "Divined : Decayed".

    Below the link are comments that are contained in the Guitar Pro file that may be of some help when matching the MIDI parts/audio/vocals/bass/guitar (you get the idea).

    MIDI file download link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IY...ahGm7rSBal7FV9. Tempo is 110.

    The rendered audio file is busy uploading right now (comment edited out i.e. changed file format). Will furnish SoundCloud link in my next post (again with the necessary comments).

    Comments from Guitar Pro file:

    Musicians:

    TOMMY ALDRIDGE backing vocals
    DAVID ALFORD backing vocals
    CARMINE APPICE backing vocals
    VINNIE APPICE drums, backing vocals
    JIMMY BAIN bass, backing vocals
    FRANKIE BANALI drums, backing vocals
    ERIC BLOOM lead vocals
    MICK BROWN backing vocals
    VIVIAN CAMPBELL guitar, backing vocals
    CARLOS CAVAZO guitar, backing vocals
    AMIR DERAKH backing vocals
    RONNIE JAMES DIO lead vocals
    DON DOKKEN lead vocals
    KEVIN DUBROW lead vocals
    BRAD GILLIS guitar, backing vocals
    CRAIG GOLDIE guitar, backing vocals
    CHRIS HAGER backing vocals
    ROB HALFORD lead vocals
    CHRIS HOLMES backing vocals
    BLACKIE LAWLESS backing vocals
    GEORGE LYNCH guitar, backing vocals
    YNGWIE MALMSTEEN guitar, backing vocals
    MICK MARS guitar, backing vocals
    DAVE MENIKETTI lead vocals
    DAVE MURRAY guitar melody lines, backing vocals
    VINCE NEIL backing vocals
    TED NUGENT backing vocals
    EDDIE OJEDA guitar, backing vocals
    JEFF PILSON backing vocals
    DONALD "BUCK DHARMA" ROESER guitar, backing
    vocals
    DAVID ST. HUBBINS backing vocals
    RUDY SARZO backing vocals
    CLAUDE SCHNELL keyboards, backing vocals
    NEIL SCHON guitar, backing vocals
    PAUL SHORTINO lead vocals
    DEREK SMALLS backing vocals
    ADRIAN SMITH guitar melody lines, backing vocals
    MARK STEIN vocals, backing vocals
    GEOFF TATE lead vocals
    MATT THORR backing vocals


    These are from bands like :

    Blue Oyster Cult
    Dio
    Dokken
    Giuffria
    Iron Maiden
    Journey
    Judas Priest
    King Cobra
    Motley Crue
    Night Ranger
    Queensryche
    Quiet Riot
    Rough Cutt
    Spinal Tap
    Twisted Sister
    Vanilla Fudge
    W.A.S.P.
    Y&T


    The guitar solos were played like this :


    Graig Goldy/ Eddie Ojeda
    Vivian Campbell/ Brad Gillis
    Neal Schon/ George Lynch
    Yngwie Malmsteen/ Vivian Campbell
    George Lynch/ Carlos Cavazo
    Brad Gillis/ Craig Goldy/ Donald "Buck Dharma"
    Roeser
    Last edited by dpaterson; 02-22-2019 at 11:39 AM.

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