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Thread: Plugging order TCE G-force with a 1987X through attenuator

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    Default Plugging order TCE G-force with a 1987X through attenuator

    So I'm not very good at understanding the electronics of it, so sorry for possible dumb questions in advance.

    My rig at home is basically this: Guitar -> pedalboard -> Marshall 1987X head -> Ultimate Attenuator -> Marshall 1960AX cab
    A friend of mine recently handed me a TC Electronic G-force multi-effects processor so I was trying to plug it in in the send/return at the back of the amp but it seems it doesn't work that way? It turns on, the signal is goes through, but the effects seem not to work. Is it because of the attenuator that soaks it all, or maybe it's rubbish and I did smth else wrong?

    So my goal is to get the effects from the G-force on top of the sound that comes after the fully cranked amp through the UA and hear it on a home-friendly volume out of the cabinet. And I'm kinda scared of experimenting, don't want to damage the amp or other components. Is it possible? Do I need some extra equipment for that? Am I just plugging something in the wrong order?

    Thank you

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    Default Re: Plugging order TCE G-force with a 1987X through attenuator

    It sounds like the G-Force was in bypass mode. It should work through the loop, but your effects would be distorted unless your power amp is running clean (which I doubt).

    It sounds like you're trying to run a wet/dry rig which isn't possible without an additional power amp and speaker. You'd take the line out from your attenuator into the input of the G-Force and take the G-Force output to a separate power amp and cabinet. You'll also want to set the G-Force 100% wet and control your effects level with the level control on your attenuator.
    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

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    Default Re: Plugging order TCE G-force with a 1987X through attenuator

    So, if I got you right, it should work just fine as I've connected it just the effects would be distorted? I thought I made sure it's not in bypass mode or anything, I'll try again later, when I get home...

    Thank you for explaining the wet/dry rig wiring! If the attenuator had an FX loop would it help or you need a separate amp and cab anyway? Also if you connect a seond separate stack, does the processor output go to amp input or return on th eback plate?

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    Default Re: Plugging order TCE G-force with a 1987X through attenuator

    Quote Originally Posted by Xmoose9 View Post
    So, if I got you right, it should work just fine as I've connected it just the effects would be distorted? I thought I made sure it's not in bypass mode or anything, I'll try again later, when I get home...

    Thank you for explaining the wet/dry rig wiring! If the attenuator had an FX loop would it help or you need a separate amp and cab anyway? Also if you connect a second separate stack, does the processor output go to amp input or return on th eback plate?
    Attenuators don't have effects loops because they're working with a signal that is far hotter than line level. The only exceptions I can think of are things like the Badcat Unleash or Fryette Power Station which are an attenuator and second power amp in the same box. Either way you'll need a second power amp of some sort and a second cabinet. A PA amp would be ideal, but a guitar amp could work as long as you plug into the effects return and run the power amp as clean as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

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    Default Re: Plugging order TCE G-force with a 1987X through attenuator

    I was thinking of getting the Fryette Power Station instead of my old attenuator, but now I know that I need another cabinet as well, thanks to you mr. Dystrust ))
    Do you think a PA amp would be the best option? If yes, which one would you recommend best for that? I don't have a clue about those things( Thank you for the info once again!
    I still haven't had a moment to try my luck with the G-force again, if it'll work like it's now, I will tell the result when I try it again!

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    Default Re: Plugging order TCE G-force with a 1987X through attenuator

    I'm not an expert on PA cabs, so I couldn't offer much advise there unfortunately.

    Since you're splitting the signal before your guitar cabinet, you'll either want to use a second guitar cabinet for your effects or run some sort of speaker simulator in the effects chain somewhere. If you opt for a speaker sim (or use IRs), I would put it before the input of your processor so that your effects have the least possible additional coloration.

    If possible you should borrow enough gear to try this setup as it doesn't sound like a typical effected guitar rig and the tones aren't for everyone. I mic'd my cab and ran that signal through a processor and PA when I was trying wet/dry. It results in a very HiFi tone that reminded me of David Gilmour's live sound (see Pulse or Live in Gdansk for an example) and I didn't care for it. I prefer much grittier, LoFi effects, so I ditched my entire rack in favor of a pedal board into a great sounding Marshall.
    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

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    Default Re: Plugging order TCE G-force with a 1987X through attenuator

    Damn it's confusing!) gotta borrow some to try this stuff out I guess. That's what I always used to do, pedals into a Marshall, but when this G-force came... Never had really nice and flexible delay/reverb and I thought it's a great chance to get it done.
    Thank you for all the valuable info though, appreciate that a lot, sir!

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    Default Re: Plugging order TCE G-force with a 1987X through attenuator

    That G force should sound great in the loop. I have a lot of experience with tceís nova system and G system and the effects are really good.

    That said some of the gear has a steep learning curve to it. Also some effects loops are parallel rather than series so the killdry will need to be turned on if this is the case. You can test your loop by putting a tuner in the loop and seeing how much signal is cut when the tuner is on, assuming itís set to mute the signal.

    Iím not sure why yours isnít working but I would get the G force manual and study the routing, hook up and controls for it. You could test it in front to make sure itís working and sound is coming through then come back to putting it in the loop when you get it setup.

    Iíve had problems in my setups from putting the send/return backwards to having my loop switched off or having the effect volume so low that
    nothing gets returned. Also bad patch cables that cut out are a problem, so I test all my cables out for shorts.

    I would love to run a wet/dry or wet/dry/wet setup but with 2 guitars itís overkill for what Iím doing, even though I have the direct outs and channels in our pa to do it. With a stereo effects unit you can pan all the effects to one output and run one back to your return and the other side to a direct box for the pa or a second amp.

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    Default Re: Plugging order TCE G-force with a 1987X through attenuator

    Quote Originally Posted by allstarrme View Post
    That G force should sound great in the loop. I have a lot of experience with tce’s nova system and G system and the effects are really good.

    That said some of the gear has a steep learning curve to it. Also some effects loops are parallel rather than series so the killdry will need to be turned on if this is the case. You can test your loop by putting a tuner in the loop and seeing how much signal is cut when the tuner is on, assuming it’s set to mute the signal.

    I’m not sure why yours isn’t working but I would get the G force manual and study the routing, hook up and controls for it. You could test it in front to make sure it’s working and sound is coming through then come back to putting it in the loop when you get it setup.

    I’ve had problems in my setups from putting the send/return backwards to having my loop switched off or having the effect volume so low that
    nothing gets returned. Also bad patch cables that cut out are a problem, so I test all my cables out for shorts.

    I would love to run a wet/dry or wet/dry/wet setup but with 2 guitars it’s overkill for what I’m doing, even though I have the direct outs and channels in our pa to do it. With a stereo effects unit you can pan all the effects to one output and run one back to your return and the other side to a direct box for the pa or a second amp.
    Generally I'd agree with you, but the OP's amp is a non-master Marshall that he has cranked running through an attenuator. If the power amp were running clean the G-Force would sound pretty good, but I doubt that's the case here.
    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

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