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Thread: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    How Computers Ruined Rock Music:



    Where's the mojo?
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    tonewood instigator
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Computers didn't ruin rock music. Lazy people wanting to get rich without putting in work ruined rock music. Computers were just a means to that end.
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Quote Originally Posted by Chistopher View Post
    Computers didn't ruin rock music. Lazy people wanting to get rich without putting in work ruined rock music. Computers were just a means to that end.
    I actually agree with this. Lazy 'producers' in the early 80s ruined a lot of rock music. There were a lot of people at that time doing some interesting things with computers, but the feeding frenzy created a lot of mediocre slop.
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    How Computers Ruined Rock Music:



    Where's the mojo?
    but he's using a computer to transmit information to other ppl using a computer network, right?

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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Y'all didn't watch the vid.
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Who needs to to know Pro-tools homogenized everything. "The industry Standard ".
    Haven't you got anything better to do than try and tell us stuff we already know .
    Maybe you could learn to use correct English and not your cannedarseslang

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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    Y'all didn't watch the vid.
    I watched the initial parts, not auto-tune.

    Now that said, you remember "we're stars" song right? My first attemts to cover the rhythm were horrible, there was clear missing of synchronization between yours and my track. After DP spotted this and I acknowledged it, I spent 2-3 nights non-stop to try and be close to your tempo until DP accepted as passable. OK. Now in the greek forum we had to make the song without your parts, but the editor didn't even use my "good" rhythmh track, he used an older one (which was quite off the beat) and made it sound great. When I asked him WTF has he done to it, he replied editing. OK, then I told him the whole story from the SD forums and the guy replied that almost EVERY album has this much and more editing done to it. Which means that your vid makes some sense. But, its quite inevidable that tech would turn out this way sooner or later, and its a common trend in all fields not just music.

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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenVulture View Post
    Who needs to to know Pro-tools homogenized everything. "The industry Standard ".
    Haven't you got anything better to do than try and tell us stuff we already know .
    Maybe you could learn to use correct English and not your cannedarseslang
    You didn't watch it, either. In essence, he makes a great point about losing the human feel on the rhythm with quantization.

    Besides that, the day you sit behind a DAW and learn how to record... is the day wallabies fly and dingoes sing.
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    For those that didn't watch the vid, he makes a great point about losing the human feel on the rhythm with quantization.

    The human feel, or "groove / swing" if you will, being elastic by being behind the beat sometimes; slight changes in tempo.

    When you grid (per tempo) up the drums for example and line everything up according to the grid, the human element is removed.

    Thus sounding like a machine/computer.
    Last edited by LLL; 04-14-2019 at 10:16 AM.
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    I've made the same argument about quantization killing the feel of songs pretty frequently.

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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Hogwash. Technically focused points relating to a problem that is not technical in the slightest.

    It all comes down to songwriting, in the end. You can produce something a billion different ways, and good songwriting will always show through it.

    There are people writing good rock songs. We just don't hear them any more, because they don't get picked up by big outlets.

    It's an issue of distribution, really, not an issue of talent.

    And FWIW, this is coming from one of the most curmudgeonly "I don't listen to that new crap" music listeners around these parts.
    Last edited by ItsaBass; 04-14-2019 at 02:47 PM.
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    It’s interesting where he shows songs before people were quantizing to the grid, and how the BPM’s within the song changes.

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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Being naturally sloppy and lacking the patience it takes to be anal like in the video, I found I actually did the reverse of what he's talking about when I just recorded my first track for my band..

    I used a drum machine, but then diid'nt stick the drum sections together right (there were gaps when I zoomed in later..but I'd already edited my guitars/bass tracks accordingly).

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    This made the guitar/bass stuff I'd recorded on my looper with a click track sound a bit misaligned to the drum track that I laid down with my MT drummer 2 software. I thought there was difference between the two tempo's (though I'd set both to "140 bpm"..but still, my looper's cheap and Chinese ) but it was actually the gaps between the drum bars that caused the misalignment.

    Anyway,I compensated a bit with the guitars and bass tracks by hacking a bit off here and there..and boom..really "humanized" the whole thing pretty nicely in the process..



    But yeah, what this guy is talking about is the reason why when you listen to old Maiden records..they sound so ****ing lively and real. The tempo constantly shifts/changes. The riffs are all real with often glaring differnces in tempo from one measure/bar to the next..vocals don't line up drums lag/speed up. ..and the end result is timeless ****ing insanity.

    Stuff you can go nuts banging your hed to 30-40 years down the line

    On the other hand you have all the fake anally edited/overproduced **** that's being churned out constantly on today's "music assembly lines" that no one's going to remember by the end of the year
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    Being naturally sloppy and lacking the patience it takes to be anal like in the video, I found I actually did the reverse of what he's talking about when I just recorded my first track for my band..

    I used a drum machine, but then diid'nt stick the drum sections together right (there were gaps when I zoomed in later..but I'd already edited my guitars/bass tracks accordingly).

    Name:  waveform.jpg
Views: 61
Size:  72.5 KB

    This made the guitar/bass stuff I'd recorded on my looper with a click track sound a bit misaligned to the drum track that I laid down with my MT drummer 2 software. I thought there was difference between the two tempo's (though I'd set both to "140 bpm"..but still, my looper's cheap and Chinese ) but it was actually the gaps between the drum bars that caused the misalignment.

    Anyway,I compensated a bit with the guitars and bass tracks by hacking a bit off here and there..and boom..really "humanized" the whole thing pretty nicely in the process..



    But yeah, what this guy is talking about is the reason why when you listen to old Maiden records..they sound so ****ing lively and real. The tempo constantly shifts/changes. The riffs are all real with often glaring differnces in tempo from one measure/bar to the next..vocals don't line up drums lag/speed up. ..and the end result is timeless ****ing insanity.

    Stuff you can go nuts banging your hed to 30-40 years down the line

    On the other hand you have all the fake anally edited/overproduced **** that's being churned out constantly on today's "music assembly lines" that no one's going to remember by the end of the year
    Yeah!
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsaBass View Post
    Hogwash. Technically focused points relating to a problem that is not technical in the slightest.

    It all comes down to songwriting, in the end. You can produce something a billion different ways, and good songwriting will always show through it.

    There are people writing good rock songs. We just don't hear them any more, because they don't get picked up by big outlets.

    It's an issue of distribution, really, not an issue of talent.

    And FWIW, this is coming from one of the most curmudgeonly "I don't listen to that new crap" music listeners around these parts.
    It's not an either-or situation, both points are true. The stuff that is getting widely distributed is being produced as described, as is most of the home studio stuff, too (to be completely honest).

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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    You didn't watch it, either. In essence, he makes a great point about losing the human feel on the rhythm with quantization.

    Besides that, the day you sit behind a DAW and learn how to record... is the day wallabies fly and dingoes sing.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Well I worked all that out years ago. " Quantisation " is really a misuse of the term. If you get into Digitization Principles and Quantization Noise you'll find that "Quantisation " is really an inappropriate use of the word when referring to recording " clean up " . Yes in this case it refers to realigning your beats/timing and killing any natural feel of the original recording. A feature I found years ago and very definitely decided never to use.

    It's just a part of all the Digitized Signal Processing [DSP] that falls under my " homogenized " label. So many people use the FX /EQ's and what ever that come bundled with their " Pro- tools " or what ever DAW software they use that every body sounds the same right down to their mastering output.

    You only have to listen to the Commercial junk on the airwaves to realize this. Everything sounds the same. Half a dozen different Female or Male singers are almost indistinguishable once they've been through the " Pro-tools suite " [ Or whatever DAW software used ] and just sound like MUZAK.

    I might suggest that your exploring " catch up " and it may be new to you but it isn't to me. I learned my Recording on Analog equipment back in the 70's and 80's. When transitioning to digital I explored how to retain the " Magic of the Analog feel " while using a very pristine and clear recording process. My guess is you've never experienced 24 Track Analog Studio Recording because the quality of the sound in the Studio is almost indistinguishable from the early digital processing. I used to wonder how do you get this quality of sound at home. Digital recording and the CD medium did that.
    Last edited by GoldenVulture; 04-15-2019 at 03:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    He got schooled.

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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenVulture View Post
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Well I worked all that out years ago. " Quantisation " is really a misuse of the term. If you get into Digitization Principles and Quantization Noise you'll find that "Quantisation " is really an inappropriate use of the word when referring to recording " clean up " . Yes in this case it refers to realigning your beats/timing and killing any natural feel of the original recording. A feature I found years ago and very definitely decided never to use.

    It's just a part of all the Digitized Signal Processing [DSP] that falls under my " homogenized " label. So many people use the FX /EQ's and what ever that come bundled with their " Pro- tools " or what ever DAW software they use that every body sounds the same right down to their mastering output.

    You only have to listen to the Commercial junk on the airwaves to realize this. Everything sounds the same. Half a dozen different Female or Male singers are almost indistinguishable once they've been through the " Pro-tools suite " [ Or whatever DAW software used ] and just sound like MUZAK.

    I might suggest that your exploring " catch up " and it may be new to you but it isn't to me. I learned my Recording on Analog equipment back in the 70's and 80's. When transitioning to digital I explored how to retain the " Magic of the Analog feel " while using a very pristine and clear recording process. My guess is you've never experienced 24 Track Analog Studio Recording because the quality of the sound in the Studio is almost indistinguishable from the early digital processing. I used to wonder how do you get this quality of sound at home. Digital recording and the CD medium did that.
    Trying to save face, eh?

    Your initial response was anything but relevant to what Beato was saying; it was nothing but bitter, jealous sour grapes. You didn't really watch the vid - period. Not until later. I might suggest next time watch / listen before opening your mouth and looking like a fool.

    Oh and, you might school some (like kramersteen there), but you don't school me.

    And if this is your attempt at a pissy little ****-measuring contest, you haven't produced jack squat around these parts. Plus, I've heard your "playing".

    (Plus, you pick on little kids who contribute way more than you to boost your flaccid ego)

    You should go back to Off Topic where you can chuck your bitter, jealous sour grapes at somebody who gives a crap.
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    The thing that Rick is speaking about requires such good natural groove / voice talent and a dead tight band that is pretty rare in the reality. Without that, the reality can be really ugly even if the actual band is pushed really hard. Even awesome performers can have issues as they are are scheduled to record at a certain time and if they have disturbing health issues or after a heartbreak they will be unable to run 100%. So what's the solution, then? Tell all people with good (great) music ideas with not so much time, talent or just not be in the form to **** off and sell vegetables instead of chasing their dreams? Or try to help them any way you can? C'mon. There is a balance of course, it is not necessary to turn a singer into a robot but these tools are necessary in a contemporary recording workflow.

    Rock music killed itself by copying banal ideas too much / playing safe to please softtail people / pvssies with money and not to put more energy on creating true original content. It lost its point as soon as it stopped to think as a rebel.

    The reasons why you don't feel rock as appealing as before... Well, around the age, do you really have the same desire for girls, fast cars, chasing your real dreams, just to name a few? The truth is, you and your passion erodes a lot. Believe me, you changed more than rock music did.

    On the lifeless production, blame it on lazy musicians. Uh-oh, aren't you a normal guy, working like a dog, rasing kids, putting the energy of the Sun into sustaining your everyday life? Well, the majority of bands are normal guys too. Are they lazy? Not at all. Chasing their dreams for years as a background app, by the time they get their life together, they just have very limited spare time left to rehearse their music to play tight as death. And everyone wants a record finished as perfect as they imagine and not as they really are.

    Before the age of editing there was someting like "spending 4 months in the studio" and "waiting for the perfect take". Now it is gone. Neither labels nor self-sustaining bands are willing to pay for the hard way and shooting 1 or 2 semi-acceptable takes then pump it up with sugar means 100x less time and money.

    As a producer you balance between the side that wants the actual recording to be as perfect as the new Periphery and the side that says it has 60 hours of time (and money) cap. You can say 'no' of course, you don't need to make a living, never cared about money, it is all for honour. Only accept big scale art classy assignments by musicians who have so tight natural groove that they don't need editing (like Matt Cameron, just in case). You are straight to keep mastering levels low to preserve and disregard furiously complaining labels who give the money anway saying why this record risking just -14dBFS RMS while the new Nile sells well and it is -7dBFS RMS. You tell musicians that you don't use autotune and their meowing below the line one semitone is a beauty of human flaw.

    So, yes computers kill humanity in music. Producers are evil. Bands are lazy. You are the very same rebel as you were 30 years ago.

    And I am a princess.

    Damn.
    Last edited by NecroPolo; 04-15-2019 at 12:01 PM.

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    Braindeadologist GoldenVulture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pitched, Pocketed, Grided & AutoTuned

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    Trying to save face, eh?

    Your initial response was anything but relevant to what Beato was saying; it was nothing but bitter, jealous sour grapes. You didn't really watch the vid - period. Not until later. I might suggest next time watch / listen before opening your mouth and looking like a fool.

    Oh and, you might school some (like kramersteen there), but you don't school me.

    And if this is your attempt at a pissy little ****-measuring contest, you haven't produced jack squat around these parts. Plus, I've heard your "playing".

    (Plus, you pick on little kids who contribute way more than you to boost your flaccid ego)

    You should go back to Off Topic where you can chuck your bitter, jealous sour grapes at somebody who gives a crap.
    Figures, your Pious load of garbage as errant as ever. You're a tosser.

    (Plus, you pick on little kids who contribute way more than you to boost your flaccid ego)
    Go ask Nathan if he knows what your crapping on about. Your a prize Idiot.

    WE all know what your all about. Pathetic aren't you.
    Last edited by GoldenVulture; 04-15-2019 at 10:20 AM.

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