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    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Kemper - what's the point?

    So everyone starts getting a chub at the mention of Kemper. But I am asking a serious what is the BFD with these?

    First - I have heard a number of bands and seen them in use. You know what? Not once did I go "HOLY MOTHER OF TONE &^$%" or "WHERE THE %$#$ is [insert name of famous tone god]???? HE MUST BE BEHIND A CURTAINN SOMEWHERE!!!!"

    Second, I have played one on two occasions in my favorite Sam Ash - so I played long and loud enough.

    OK - it'a a modeller. Sounds just fine. Same as any other modeler these days. Yeah - lots of amps and cabs, half of which all sound the same to my old shot ears. And effects - OMG; The delays sounds as good as....any delay!

    Defend this over-hyped, feature bloated, ungodly expensive piece of "So what?"
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    He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

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    Mojo's Minions masta' c's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    I'll agree with the expensive part, but it's arguably the best at what it does. It's light, it has incredible flexibility live/recording and it sounds great. Plus, there's huge user support behind it and people feel comfortable investing in the technology, sort of like a Tesla.

    It doesn't require lugging around 200 lbs worth of amps to get tons of different tones. You can take your favorite amp or a rarity you come across, model it on the spot and take the tone with you. It sounds close enough to the "real deal" that 99% can't tell the difference and most pros feel the advantages outweigh the cons.

    I think you're ultimately trying to defend your "old shot ears". If it's as good as anything else, as you say, then it's just that...as good as anything else. I certainly view it as an "upgrade" to something like my Katana, however, even though it produces plenty of great sounds.

    You could drop the same amount for a Mesa Boogie or high-end Marshall to get just a few sounds and still have to shell out more for pedals, recording equipment, etc.

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    Toneologist Obsessive Compulsive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    ^Interesting. How does one take your "favorite amp or a rarity you come across, model it on the spot" with that thing? Do you record a sample of it or something and transfer it to the unit?

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    HardtailPisser ibanezrocks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    If you only want one tone, sure, there's no point. You'll be better off with a simple setup.

    If you don't want to have to buy and maintain 100 amps and pedals, get a high-end modeler.

    If you're not sure what you want or your tastes change, again, you're better off with a high-end modeler.

    The Kemper, Axe FX, Helix, etc. stuff is amazing.

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    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    again, so I'm saying Pod = Kemper.

    So why Kemper? I get the "record and model something not already there". Although I highly question that...but whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad City
    He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker ICTGoober's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    It's a toaster.

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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Fractal in front of a tube amp is the M/fx set up that impressed me.

    I always thought the Line 6 stuff M/fx in front of anything was a bit of a tone suck if you wetted the signal too much. good for light application.
    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Also, I've listen to all of the A/B comparisons between Kempers and Tube Amps.

    Apples to Apples a Tube Amp does sound slightly better still -rounder and more dimensional, but it's not a big gap -and the fexibility a Kemper gives you makes it a clear choice for many people -so I get it. Not everyone is looking for the ultimate tone. ..but I am -so no Kemper for me!
    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    Also, I've listen to all of the A/B comparisons between Kempers and Tube Amps.

    Apples to Apples a Tube Amp does sound slightly better still -rounder and more dimensional, but it's not a big gap -and the fexibility a Kemper gives you makes it a clear choice for many people -so I get it. Not everyone is looking for the ultimate tone. ..but I am -so no Kemper for me!
    I call BS on this opinion. I bet that in any blind test in a musical context you couldn't tell a Kemper from a real amp from an RP250 programmed right.

    You were listening to a vid that said 'Here is Twin' and 'Here is Kemper'
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad City
    He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    I call BS on this opinion. I bet that in any blind test in a musical context you couldn't tell a Kemper from a real amp from an RP250 programmed right.

    You were listening to a vid that said 'Here is Twin' and 'Here is Kemper'
    Eh, RP250, hmmmn no, that one has awful souding distortion, you will actually hear it even in a musical context, no programming can fix it. Yuck. Not all the devices from back in the days were good, L6 got it going good with the early Pod unit 2.0 i think it was. That is why everyone still lugged around halfstacks/combos for instant gratification. And back then(today as well) there were some awful sounding tube amp recordings as well, primarily also related to poor recording techniques by artists or bad mastering skills of the tracks.

    You don't find a huge happening scene with guitar music because times have changed, people's interests have changed with them. Fractal etc. aren't the cause of it, people are living busy lives, they want entertainment on the move in their phone, in their hands. There is creativity blooming out there on guitar, its just not mainstream anymore, youtube took care of that as well. With no good public outlets, artists prefer a day job for better pay. You can find vids of djs soloing & the audience going crazy over it, its the most atrocious sounds i've heard but some people like that stuff.

    Now moving to the main topic, often I don't know why people expect a signal chain recreating a amp+cab+mic+room(reverb) through headphones or studio monitors or a home theatre setup should equate to actually playing an amp+cab(speaker) in a real room(home/garage/studio/hall) to behave the same. It just wont, guitar speakers move air differently. Move the amp setup in a room far far away where it can't be heard at all & monitor with
    one microphone using a mixing desk(with good mic preamp), that feel/interaction of standing & playing right next to the amp setup just won't be there. To get that requires either a good poweramp+cab setup or a modern FRFR solution designed to make use of the potential in these current gen unit's processors, it has to be present in a room with you playing too. Ofcourse theres the human portion involved too, some people just make bad sounds whatever the device in use, however not everyone finds it bad to listen either so there is personal preference to consider as well.

    Live playing on a stage with these is very different experience as well, nowadays venues are cutting down on stage volume & in-ear monitoring is getting to be a compulsion in certain places. No time to deep edit on the spot in such places, luckily the current gen units dont require it to get a good mix, it was a problem cutting through the mix with lot of the older tech especially if a second guitarist was involved using the real deal.

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    Mojo's Minions dystrust's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank- View Post
    Now moving to the main topic, often I don't know why people expect a signal chain recreating a amp+cab+mic+room(reverb) through headphones or studio monitors or a home theatre setup should equate to actually playing an amp+cab(speaker) in a real room(home/garage/studio/hall) to behave the same. It just wont, guitar speakers move air differently. Move the amp setup in a room far far away where it can't be heard at all & monitor with
    one microphone using a mixing desk(with good mic preamp), that feel/interaction of standing & playing right next to the amp setup just won't be there.
    This.

    When you A/B the Axe or Kemper against a "real" amp, you're not really comparing apples to apples unless you're listening to a monitor mix rather than the amp itself.

    That being said I've never seen a Kemper in person, and the only AxeFx I've played is the Ultra. The tones were spectacular, but IMO the feel was maybe 95% there. Instead of feeling directly connected to the sound pouring our (like a good tube amp) It was a bit disconnected much like all of the rack systems I've built over the years.
    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    I call BS on this opinion. I bet that in any blind test in a musical context you couldn't tell a Kemper from a real amp from an RP250 programmed right.

    You were listening to a vid that said 'Here is Twin' and 'Here is Kemper'
    Thanks, my opinion is Bull****

    I'm going off mic'd A/B videos and you can hear the difference -it's there and obvious but not overwhelming at all -that's the best I can do -because I'm not buying one or setting up a live A/B for myself..

    In a musical context -as in -with a full band I would probably agree with you -but that's not what I was referring to -I was referring to actual differences listening to each amps
    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post

    I'm going off mic'd A/B videos and you can hear the difference -it's there and obvious but not overwhelming at all -that's the best I can do -because I'm not buying one or setting up a live A/B for myself..
    And there is the problem. You KNOW which is the tube. If we did it blind folded, and randomly, over a number of trials would you prefer the tubes or the Kemper? we don't know - and rarely ever will, because companies don't want you to do that. They know the name/bad carries weight - but not necessarily validity!

    What if you preferred a $38 Bad Monkey to a Klon 8/10 times?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad City
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    8 strings of madness! JB_From_Hell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    What if you preferred a $38 Bad Monkey to a Klon 8/10 times?
    That would make me really happy, but would be happier if it were 10/10.

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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    And there is the problem. You KNOW which is the tube. If we did it blind folded, and randomly, over a number of trials would you prefer the tubes or the Kemper? we don't know - and rarely ever will, because companies don't want you to do that. They know the name/bad carries weight - but not necessarily validity!
    I definitely wouldn't prefer the tube amp sound for everything -but I can tell the difference between the two -especially if I have the guitar in my hand -even a moderately trained ear can be shown what to listen for. so if the preference for the compression, lag and held transients that we love and are accustomed to are actually primarily nostalgia and not fundamentally "better" -which they are likely not -but who knows all the reasons why we like tube tones. For gigging does it matter? probably not at all.

    but my point was there is a difference, I can hear it on most You Tube videos (although I could not on Andertons Single Coil comparison) and I know %100 I could hear it in person, so it wouldn't be a direct replacement for the JCM800, AC15 or Deluxe sound I love for recording or playing alone, but could it be used for other sounds or variations of those amps? and gigging now?. hell yes it could. Kempers sound excellent and they will only get better.

    remember, I'm the guy that said the new Valve amp industry will be done in the not so distant future because SS and modeling progress wonderfully every year -I don't necessarily look forward to it because I like amps -but it's inevitable due to cost, environmental waste factors and raw material availability.
    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    thought the same about Fractal till got one and spent a whole lotta time working with it...it's like if you have to ask you'll never understand kinda deal...you have to invest the time to find the answer...

    the Kemper avg actual sell price on Reverb is ~1.400...relatively small gear investment with a high probability of 90% return if you don't like it...no reason not to try it if your really curious...

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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    A Kemper is different than a Fractal in that it is a profiler. It sounds only as good as the amp it profiles (samples). And it sounds exactly like those amps. Instead of carrying a bunch of amps around, you carry this one device. What it does is proprietary, so no other company can quite do the same thing. Fractal goes about it the other way, by making a computer model of every component in an amp. Hook them all up, it sounds like the amp. Very different technologies. I've heard both sound remarkable.
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    Mojo's Minions masta' c's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    The last few posts were all excellent.

    Aceman, if you have to be sold on the idea of a Kemper and still tend to think of it as a glorified POD with a higher price tag, maybe it's simply not for you.

    For thousands of others who understand its uniqueness and appreciate its attributes compared to other modelers, there's really no substitute.

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    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by masta' c View Post
    The last few posts were all excellent.
    Aceman, if you have to be sold on the idea of a Kemper and still tend to think of it as a glorified POD with a higher price tag, maybe it's simply not for you.
    Oh it definitely isn't for me. I'm just thinking it is in the way over-rated category. Like I said - I have heard half a dozen of them used live. Meh beyond recognition.
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    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    I think modelling stuff can sound really fantastic . . . but does anyone else find that they don't like using modelers simply because there are too many options? I seem to end up spending ages dicking around with knobs rather than playing. Much of my current setup has been pared down for simplicity to reduce the need for knob twiddling so I can sit down and immediately get the three or four sounds that I like.
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