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Thread: Kemper - what's the point?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    Yeah, but the many options are always sold as the #1 point of having a modeler.
    Well, it is nice to try out tons of amps you've always wanted to try. But convenience is the #1 selling point for me...#2 being weight.
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    Mojo's Minions Gtrjunior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    I think modelling stuff can sound really fantastic . . . but does anyone else find that they don't like using modelers simply because there are too many options? I seem to end up spending ages dicking around with knobs rather than playing. Much of my current setup has been pared down for simplicity to reduce the need for knob twiddling so I can sit down and immediately get the three or four sounds that I like.
    Yes...this this a big turnoff for me. as well.

  3. #23
    Mojo's Minions Diego's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    I've had enough references for Kempers sounding near undistinguishable from a real tube amp that I believe it. Also, I wouldn't know any better since I'm not much of a tone snob, or that experienced with classic tube amps anyway.

    However, I do know that the concept of a Kemper is too much for me. I started out with a modeling tube amp, I currently play a single channel tube amp. Bought an M13 to mimic having a ****load of classic pedals, and I use four or maybe five different effects and that's it. I know what I like.

    I have a tendency towards simplification I guess. So I don't need so many possibilities. Some of my favorite albums were recorded with basic, but powerful gear.

    Kempers have a place in studios or for touring, gigging musicians, since they're way more portable than a regular amp. For someone like me they're pointless. I don't need that muxh flexibility, as much as I'd like it.

    I'm pretty sure I could happily live forever with something like a AMT Stonehead, which has 4 channels of just about anything in analog format, plus my M13 or an HX Stomp or something.
    Last edited by Diego; 04-26-2019 at 03:57 PM.
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  4. #24
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Never tried a Kemper, but I did'nt care for the Axe-Fx II when I played one a few months ago. Anyone who says they sound/respond exactly like a tube amp is kidding himself.

    There's an inherent difference in there that won't match up, no matter what. It does'nt feel, respond (where's the kick?) or even sound like a tube amp & while I can see a lot of people loving the tones, they honestly were'nt authentic tube amp tones to me, nowhere near as in-your-face as an actual tube head & a bit too pristine (plastic-y/lacking texture/grit) sounding no matter the patch/setting or w/e.

    Maybe I could've tweaked the thing for hours and got it to sound nicer to my ears (?) but that's the sort of thing I dread doing haha. Nothing beats just plugging in, turning a couple knobs & cranking the volume till you feel your pants flap around...
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  5. #25
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diego View Post

    I'm pretty sure I could happily live forever with something like a AMT Stonehead, which has 4 channels of just about anything in analog format, plus my M13 or an HX Stomp or something.
    I actually far preferred my Stonehead to The Axe-fx...not joking./

    To my ears analog SS comes way closer to the real thing...and while they don't "model" ****, an amp like the Stonehead is extremely versatile and will get you almost any tone/response you want/need, while being as simple to dial in as any tube amp...
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    I think what bothers me about the current generation of modelers is everyone seems to have forgotten about the experience from the previous generation.

    At one point we were all sold on how the Line 6 Flextone's were going to be all the amp we would ever need. Lenny Kravitz was using them line on SNL, the POD was being used in studios by artists that could afford real vintage amps and metal bands were able to do things with modeling that they couldn't achieve with their own physical gear.

    Did they sound good? Sure...at least good enough to sell enough of them. In retrospect we demonize them but a whole lot of people were buying them....

    But the upgrade path is never one that is continuous. No company that makes modeling hardware is going to succeed by letting its users buy once and never have to buy again. The mantra is always for them to be working on the next generation of better and that will inevitably mean users get left out in the cold when their past patches aren't as good as the newest or they just don't offer any sort of upgrade path.

    The idea that this is the last amp you will ever have to buy is false. At best it's something that will offer you some level of convenience for a span of time until you are forced to make a decision of which one option is to abandon it. There will be a time when parts are not available, Techs won't work on them because they're too old, etc.

    These are all lessons we learned once...or at least I thought we did. I know there are folks out there that take these for what they are, the convenience, and for them it's as much an important tool as their IRL amps. But I'm also seeing folks who have declared it the end-all be-all and made questionable decisions with gear that's not going to be easy for them to ever get back if they find themselves in the spot that technology always ends up putting us.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    It depends on the sounds you like, I guess. I find tweaking sounds as interesting as playing itself, and it does lead me to play some things I wouldn't have played before. I'd never think my Fractal is just like my Mesa, but that is sort of the point of it, to me.
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    I like them, and I can see the ways I could use one effectively, but my Road King serves my needs best right now. The other guitar player in my band has one and it's really nice to be able to go from a legit sounding blackface clean tone to a slightly pushed AC30 tone to an old tweed tone, to a plexi and then something like a modern Mesa with the tap of a switch. Sure, that can all be done with pedals. You can also have presets for all of those same amps where the gain or EQ is tweaked without having multiple pedals. Again, something you can do with the modelers you've mentioned. However, the Kemper allows you to set up your amp just the way you want it, then it will sample your amp and store that specific sound profile.

    For pros that use vintage and boutique stuff in the studio, they can clone the sounds right there on the spot and reproduce all of those tones without risking the valuable vintage stuff on the road. To me, that's where Kemper excels over the other options. It's essentially cloning those sounds that you already like and have, as well as giving you the flexibility to have a virtually unlimited number of variations of that same amp and reacts to volume changes, just like your normal amp.

    All of that said, I get by with four channels and a couple pedals just fine. If I go Kemper, it will be so I don't have to carry a 50lb amp head and speaker cab anymore and I can reduce my setup to plugging in the power, controller and DI out. Is it the right tool for everyone, not by a long shot. However, it makes sense for folks that have to cover a lot of ground or who are using vintage/boutique amps they don't want to ruin on the road.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    It is a toy...like all the rest of all that "wondergear".....
    Making it convinient for an ever shrinking niche of users....
    But old gear and modern gear are worlds apart....what ever tickles your fancy.
    And the usual speech about endless possibilities....and?
    It shows the lack of effort people wanna put into the whole deal...which used to be making music....now it is just another fancy new noisebox thing....there is no point, just some wheels turning really....sorry about the negative comment.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    It is different. I wrestle with that every day when I play the two side by side, real amps and the Kemper. It sounds amazing. To say it's a toy isn't true in my opinion, look at who utilizes it and how. They're highly paid professionals who could afford not to. But to be hateful at it for existing (some across the internet seem to be) and other people choosing to use it is silly. I admittedly don't get into the perfectly profiled tone sound all the time, I want to put in effort and be a little different in my method so I question how much it's for me at times, but there are people who are way above my play level and pay grade that use it wonderfully and that says a lot more than any specs or reviews need to. It has proven itself to those people, and to me to an extent, but it isn't for everyone for every reason just like any amp. Sometimes I prefer to go old-school and turn knobs, for gigs or recording, it might be even better.

    I think there is a point to them absolutely. If one were to take the time to profile their own and no longer have to lug heavy amp heads or combos up and down stairs, in and out of vehicles, etc, then on to a stage and make sure your settings are right, as well as not having to even use effects pedals if you profile them in or use the built in ones (pretty good actually), the purpose becomes massive. The sound you created at home, very light, exact to your desires and in a lunchbox. And no worries of mic placement. I am in no way defending them, I only say that I believe they definitely serve a purpose. And yeah, it's pretty ugly I think.
    Last edited by Semetery; 04-27-2019 at 11:27 AM.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasshu the humanoid typhoon View Post
    It is a toy...like all the rest of all that "wondergear".....
    Making it convinient for an ever shrinking niche of users....
    But old gear and modern gear are worlds apart....what ever tickles your fancy.
    And the usual speech about endless possibilities....and?
    It shows the lack of effort people wanna put into the whole deal...which used to be making music....now it is just another fancy new noisebox thing....there is no point, just some wheels turning really....sorry about the negative comment.
    Is this shrinking niche the lazy people who don’t want to put an effort into their music or guitarists in general?

    Fancy new noisebox... I hear grouchy ass old bluegrass guys call amplifiers that a lot.

  12. #32
    HardtailPisser ibanezrocks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasshu the humanoid typhoon View Post
    It is a toy...like all the rest of all that "wondergear".....
    Making it convinient for an ever shrinking niche of users....
    But old gear and modern gear are worlds apart....what ever tickles your fancy.
    And the usual speech about endless possibilities....and?
    It shows the lack of effort people wanna put into the whole deal...which used to be making music....now it is just another fancy new noisebox thing....there is no point, just some wheels turning really....sorry about the negative comment.
    Wouldn't a classic amp be the lazy option though? i.e. you're too lazy to tweak the thousands of possibilities from a good modern amp, so you stick with something that has one or two sounds and just use those for everything. Maybe you're too lazy to consider something new so you write it off as a toy.

    People that are still trying to improve things are not lacking effort.

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  13. #33
    Mojo's Minions Sirion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    I think modelling stuff can sound really fantastic . . . but does anyone else find that they don't like using modelers simply because there are too many options? I seem to end up spending ages dicking around with knobs rather than playing. Much of my current setup has been pared down for simplicity to reduce the need for knob twiddling so I can sit down and immediately get the three or four sounds that I like.
    See, I don't get this. I've had a couple of modellers. I first go online to see if there are patches available that replicate the sounds of guitarists I admire, and go from there. I usually have my patches down in within a couple of days, and then I don't really feel a need to tamper much with it. Of course, curiosity to try out new stuff may strike every now and then, but then I have the convenience of having it all in one box without having to pay for (and most likely wait for!) another pedal.
    Last edited by Sirion; 04-27-2019 at 03:23 PM.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowBudgetViking View Post
    No company that makes modeling hardware is going to succeed by letting its users buy once and never have to buy again.
    Does this apply to manufacturers of other types of amplifiers (such as tube amps)? If not, why? If so, how are tube amp manufacturers that rely on continued/renewed manufacturing of older products (Peavey and the 5150/6505, Marshall and the 1959SLP and 2203, Mesa and the Recto, Soldano and the SLO, etc.) still around?

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    AxeFx modeling sounds noticeably better than Kemper profiling if you're just trying to get yourself some solidstate versatility in a box
    "New stuff always sucks" -Me

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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    You are either a creative player or not. Gear doesn't change that.
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  17. #37
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    I would'nt be too surprised if the whole modelling thing goes the way all the expensive rack gear from the 80's went.. (obsolete).

    You're already looking at AXe FX/Kemper etc owners going on about how one need's a tube/ss power amp "to really make it come alive" which kind of defeats the purpose of a single/lightweight, "plug straight into themixer/DAW" do-it-all gizmo anyway..

    ..at that point all you actually need is your pedalboard & the said tube/ss power amp anyway. Chances are, at some point that's going to dawn on these guys
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Almost every pro that I talk to that uses a Kemper or Fractal uses them direct to the PA. Most of the people who pair them with a tube power amp either don't perform much, or spend too much time on forums.
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  19. #39
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Well, I've definately come across quite a few of the latter type just saying what they're saying..
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


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  20. #40
    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Sounds like someone should pair a modeler with a tube power section.

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