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Thread: Kemper - what's the point?

  1. #41
    Mojo's Minions
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demanic View Post
    Sounds like someone should pair a modeler with a tube power section.

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    Line 6 has been doing that since like the Bush administration, if not longer
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  2. #42
    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adieu View Post
    Line 6 has been doing that since like the Bush administration, if not longer
    Really.

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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adieu View Post
    Line 6 has been doing that since like the Bush administration, if not longer
    yes, true -but in fairness, those 90s and 00s Line 6 Modeling Tube amps are terrible.
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  4. #44
    Mojo's Minions Lake Placid Blues's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    The Marshall JMD:1 is a modelling amp with a tube power amp. It is not terrible. It doesn't do IRs by definition since the speakers and cab and the interaction with the output transformer are whatever cab you plug it into. However, it does have an emulated line out of a 1960A 4x12 cab that you can go directly into a PA with.

  5. #45
    Ultimate Tone Slacker NecroPolo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    I'm a simple guy as a player. I need only one functional sound per band and also I don't support the idea to spend money on gear that contain things I don't actually need so I use single modelling preamp pedals. They do that one thing perfectly I think.



    As a recording producer, I see different. I completely accept the functionality of Kemper, AxeFX and the like. I've seen some weird enough stuff in the studio with modellers during reamping, like a Line6 HDproX beating a real masterfully mic'd (it was not me but someone who is more skilled than me) Recto in A/B test, a single AMT pedal delivering the best Marshall sound among 3 other good Marshalls, bands deciding to return to their AxeFX line sounds in the mix after reamping with otherwise great organic sounding real stuff or a SansAmp RBI alone creating an instant mixable bass sound with no need of any amp. These all grew into functionality during the last decade. More practical, more flexible, much more options.

    Think of them as swiss army tools. It is not a real knife but it is absolutely capable of killing if used so. Maybe, a couple of dosens of other creative ways than a single knife like using the fork or the corkscrew.
    Last edited by NecroPolo; 04-28-2019 at 07:48 AM. Reason: typos

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Well, how can a amp in a room tend to feel the same & sound the same on a recording as it does when you are actually playing one compared to listening at the playback of your recording of the same amp? I can't feel the guitar on any particular audio track behave like a live amp i'm playing through right in front of me. A live amp in front of me responds differently on daily basis for me atleast with differwnt tones I dial it in for.

    With higher end modelling/profiling gear you get more options, converters, hardware, support, etc that are useful to those that have been using these over the past decade & need the extras for performances or recordings. The old Pod is good, no dout has been used on countless records in the 90s but limited compared to these functionwise, tonewise everyone will have splitting opinions.

    Ace if ya tired of carrying around gear to the gigs then going digital may be for you, if not then skip it & continue playing. If ya recording then thats a different thing & depends on what kind of sounds your recording on average that you need something like this to help ya ease your workflow.

  7. #47
    Just A Minion ErikH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    The Kemper profiler is a great product. Being able to create a profile from a favorite amp that you may not want to take on the road is a great thing these days. Even if it's 95% there, that's more than good enough in a band setting and for many playing at home. Mark Kendall of Great White used one on the last GW album. Sounds killer to me.

    A buddy of mine has a AxeFX II. He runs it to a Seymour Duncan PowerStage 170 amp and then to an Orange 1x12 for stage reference. There's also a direct feed to the FOH from the AxeFX II. It's a great lightweight setup and sounds really really good.

    My last 2 amps have been modelers. A Vox AD50VT and now a Vox AV30. The latter is described as an analog tube amp with different amp voicings. It is analog for sure with two 12AX7's (one in the preamp and one in the poweramp) but I don't think they are run at full voltage. The amp "models" are really good and an improvement from the AD series, IMO. I was very surprised at how well this little 30 watt amp with a 1x10" keeps up with a really hard hitting drummer, with room to spare. It's not even close to full volume. It's a great, lightweight, little amp. While I do like modelers, simple is better for me. The AV30 captures that in spades. A WYSIWYG interface, 2 channels, 3 digital effects that sound great (chorus, delay, reverb), effects loop, footswitch with either 2 or 5-button (2-button switches channels and effects bank on or off. 5-button switches channels, each effect on/off and a tap tempo for the delay). There's also some switch settings on the pre and power (like bright and fat, BIAS and reactor). There's noticeable changes in the sound with those switches. It's everything I need in a small footprint. Vox has made great modelers over the years.

    Would I like to use a full tube amp again? Sure. Is it practical for me? Not really. Definitely not practical at home.

  8. #48
    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    Also, I've listen to all of the A/B comparisons between Kempers and Tube Amps.

    Apples to Apples a Tube Amp does sound slightly better still -rounder and more dimensional, but it's not a big gap -and the fexibility a Kemper gives you makes it a clear choice for many people -so I get it. Not everyone is looking for the ultimate tone. ..but I am -so no Kemper for me!
    I call BS on this opinion. I bet that in any blind test in a musical context you couldn't tell a Kemper from a real amp from an RP250 programmed right.

    You were listening to a vid that said 'Here is Twin' and 'Here is Kemper'
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  9. #49
    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by masta' c View Post
    The last few posts were all excellent.
    Aceman, if you have to be sold on the idea of a Kemper and still tend to think of it as a glorified POD with a higher price tag, maybe it's simply not for you.
    Oh it definitely isn't for me. I'm just thinking it is in the way over-rated category. Like I said - I have heard half a dozen of them used live. Meh beyond recognition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad City
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  10. #50
    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    Like Mincer said, it’s profiling, not modeling. It’s like a snapshot of an entire rig.

    Comparing it to a POD is like saying R9 = Epiphone LP Standard.
    Again - you are acting like an Epiphany can't sound better than an R9.
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  11. #51
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    Again - you are acting like an Epiphany can't sound better than an R9.
    Depending on who is using the Kemper/R9 and POD/Epiphone, sure. However, are you really gonna dispute that setup as best as possible for each, and in the hands of a highly talented person, the R9 is probably gonna sound better?

    Ok, if I said “A Kemper let’s you take a digital snapshot of any rig,” would that make more sense?

    Can’t help but wonder if you’re trolling a little.

  12. #52
    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    I absolutely get the appeal of something like a Kemper. Yeah - ton of amps, ton of cabs, all mix and matchable. Cool stuff. Ability to have 50 amps and a wall of cabs at your finger tips - especially in a studio, wow. As a "creative" tool, again just like three different guitars get three different songs out of you. Yep. Very cool. To be able (especially in a super variety wide-range cover band) to go from Disco to Rock to Punk to Funk and Snap, Crackle, or Pop at step - awesome. But again....nothing new about this.

    But two of the most interesting opinions here:

    #1 That it still isn't "quite" a tube amp. I do not get how people sit around and debate that fact all the while ignoring that even two tube amps could sound better/worse if not biased right! Never answers the question "Does it sound good?" to which the answer is apparently a resounding "Yes!" It's like you have lost all sense of perspective down to some tonal nuance that is only noticed by you, and only because you are obsessively focussed on it.

    #2. Whoever brought this up; From Guitar Player Magazine a decade ago or more: "The Line 6 Axsys II made us go where is Fender Twin?" or something like that. Yet people still discussing this with the latest Uber-Box dujour.

    Where is the focus on the MUSIC? Where is the focus on the SONG? Where is the focus on the SOUND? Gone I say - it is all about the box to no end.
    Last edited by Aceman; 04-28-2019 at 01:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad City
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  13. #53
    Administrator Mincer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    In the end, I don't care what others use, though. I'll try anything if it gets the sound that is in my head (and I have a lot of sounds in there). I'll listen to anyone that has something interesting/different to say, too, no matter how they get their sound. I've used all kinds of rigs in the past, and continue to chase what I like at the moment.
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  14. #54
    8 strings of madness! JB_From_Hell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    Where is the focus on the MUSIC? Where is the focus on the SONG? Where is the focus on the SOUND? Gone I say - it is all about the box to no end.
    Go start a thread about music and songs. I bet that’s what gets focused on.

    Anyone who is twiddling knobs on a modeler rather than writing a song wouldn’t be writing a song anyway. The people who are writing songs will be doing so whether they’re plugged into a Kemper or a Pignose.

  15. #55
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post

    #1 That it still isn't "quite" a tube amp. I do not get how people sit around and debate that fact all the while ignoring that even two tube amps could sound better/worse if not biased right! Never answers the question "Does it sound good?" to which the answer is apparently a resounding "Yes!" It's like you have lost all sense of perspective down to some tonal nuance that is only noticed by you, and only because you are obsessively focussed on it.
    Yep two tube amps could sound better/worse or w/e..but they will sound & feel like tube amps. A ****ty sounding tube amp will often be called out for sounding "solid state" (ie, lacking 'tube feel". You may not be able to put your finger on the difference, but it's very much there...ie, something's "off" about it which is described as being "hi-fi" or "solid state" sounding).

    The point being there's a benchmark "tube feel" one gets when playing a nice tube amp & I found that lacking/different when I played the Axe FX. The AMT (analog) stuff on the other hand pretty much nails it. To that extent there's more to be done as far as their (Axe-Fx's) modelling algorithms or w/e go, since these unit's are supposed to model "tube amp's" (which is their biggest selling point) & I don't think they have it right. at least not yet.

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  16. #56
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Van Noord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    The BFD is the ability to profile amps...
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  17. #57
    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Spidervalve.

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  18. #58
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demanic View Post
    Spidervalve.
    I've been plugging my POD XT Live into my Super Reverb. Despite all the people who assure me that plugging a modeler into a guitar amp will result in catastrophe, it sounds pretty incredible.

  19. #59
    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    Go start a thread about music and songs. I bet that’s what gets focused on.

    Anyone who is twiddling knobs on a modeler rather than writing a song wouldn’t be writing a song anyway. The people who are writing songs will be doing so whether they’re plugged into a Kemper or a Pignose.
    Not sure I agree.

    I have a habit of focusing on what happens to be at hand. If my guitar setup is too complicated I'll end up twiddling knobs rather than writing songs . . . because something in my brain tells me 'you can make that sound a little bit better'. And twiddling knobs is easier than writing stuff. If I've got a simpler setup where I know intimately what each part does, I'll very rarely spend more than a second or two touching knobs.

    That's why infinitely variable designs kinda turn me off. You can never know them inside and out because there's always something new to play with on them. You never really get to that 'know them intimately inside and out' part that I need to be at to really get the creativity flowing.
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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    The best guitarists in the world have usually been "knob tweakers" along with "song writers".

    They tried to master all aspects... playing and tone.

    Edward, SRV, EJ, Gibbons... just to name a few.

    Tone is part of your voice as a guitarist, and great tone inspires.

    Serious guitarists learn all the facets of guitar playing.
    Last edited by LLL; 04-29-2019 at 07:33 AM.
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