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Thread: Kemper - what's the point?

  1. #101
    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Lol.

    Are we really arguing about 'improvements' when virtually all guitar amps today are based on obsolete vacuum tube technology?




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  2. #102
    Mojo's Minions masta' c's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    LOL, you're treading on dangerous ground by suggesting tubes are "obsolete"...beware the claws!

    Besides, the whole point of the Kemper is to accurately recreate that very technology.

    That's why it doesn't make sense to think of a Kemper in terms of "improving" tone at all. Rather, the Kemper is an expert at "maintaining" existing amp tones in both response and feel, while adding modern recording appointments, greater power over fine-tuning and eliminating the hassle of carrying 15 amps around all the time to get 15 different sounds.

  3. #103
    Mojo's Minions beaubrummels's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    I think its an improvement In reliability, not sound. Players need the same sound, but without the fragility, maintenance and cost. Having lots of profiles is just a bonus that comes with the tech. Really you just need your 1-2 favorite sounds without breaking down in the middle of a gig or on the road.
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  4. #104
    Administrator Mincer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    If they made a Kemper that just held 3 profiles in a small pedal, it would sell like crazy.
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  5. #105
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    If they made a Kemper that just held 3 profiles in a small pedal, it would sell like crazy.
    I could see something a little bigger inside their existing pedal controller. 5-10 profiles, playback only for something like $750. Use blue tooth or USB connectivity to move or edit locations....

  6. #106
    Mojo's Minions masta' c's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Both good ideas!

    Unfortunately, they'd probably want $1200+ for a simplified floor profiling unit

    Mincer's 3-profile mini pedal might only cost $750, though!


  7. #107
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by masta' c View Post
    Both good ideas!

    Unfortunately, they'd probably want $1200+ for a simplified floor profiling unit

    Mincer's 3-profile mini pedal might only cost $750, though!

    Ok, just looked at my other guitar player's Kemper (we rehearse at my place). 5 profiles, tap, tuner and four effect buttons. Kill the looper, bank switches and maybe the LCD. Not having to come up with a new enclosure would help keep costs down and keeping the features minimized will limit cannibalizing too many sales of the full featured toasters and racks.

  8. #108
    HardtailPisser ibanezrocks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    I don't think Kemper is interested in a pricing race to the bottom. They seem to sell well as is. Pros know what they are and what they're capable of while grumpy old men complain on forums that tubes are irreplaceable magic. The people that hate them would still hate them regardless of price.

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  9. #109
    Mojo's Minions Gtrjunior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezrocks View Post
    I don't think Kemper is interested in a pricing race to the bottom. They seem to sell well as is. Pros know what they are and what they're capable of while grumpy old men complain on forums that tubes are irreplaceable magic. The people that hate them would still hate them regardless of price.

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  10. #110
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezrocks View Post
    I don't think Kemper is interested in a pricing race to the bottom. They seem to sell well as is. Pros know what they are and what they're capable of while grumpy old men complain on forums that tubes are irreplaceable magic. The people that hate them would still hate them regardless of price.
    I might hate them less

    Nah, I'm sure they serve a purpose & there are people out there willing to waste a third of their lives tweaking the little ****ers all day long in the hope that they will actually be able to get them to 'kinda' match this or that TUBE amp for tone, but there are more practical (and way cheaper) options for guys like me (ie, tube amps...) who just want to play without the hassle..
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  11. #111
    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    What if you use one to get a tone that isn't quite like any tube amp in production?

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  12. #112
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    (Depending on the tone in question ) ..that might actually be a cool thing

    But then that's what this is for:



    nothing else sounds like it ..& it's only $49.99



    Seriously though, you'd be defeating the whole purpose of a "modling amp" if that's all you were using it for...
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  13. #113
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    One point is Church players where they are running silent stage and you can NOT run an amp or at the least not without a real fight with the sound engineer.
    It's one of the things I face constantly being one who works with worship artists doing conferences. Here locally I will just refuse to play without my amp, however if I ever tour again and do it night after night will likely bite the bullet as much as I hate the blasted things and buy something like a Kemper rather than fight with it.
    Frankly they are NOT reliable and you have never lived untill you get a bad power surge with a modeler on stage and it goes nuts. That plus many Church sound tecs are clueless hacks and will make you sound like utter poo in the FOH not to mention using screwed up in ear systems for monitors and ---.
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  14. #114
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    there are people out there willing to waste a third of their lives tweaking the little ****ers all day long in the hope that they will actually be able to get them to 'kinda' match this or that TUBE amp for tone, but there are more practical (and way cheaper) options for guys like me (ie, tube amps...) who just want to play without the hassle..
    THIS!! Spend hours tweaking a modeler and have it sounding GREAT on your system then plug in some where with a real bonehead on the board and suddenly you sound like pure dog poo through the system and are royally SCREWED for the night!!
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  15. #115
    Mojo's Minions Sirion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by masta' c View Post
    Improved over what? The Kemper is arguably no better than the amplifiers it profiles...but also no worse.

    There are tons of pros who now tour with a Kemper in place of their traditional heads and amps. Most of the time, especially for established bands, they're simply looking for the "same" tone in a more convenient package, not improvements.

    Besides "improved" is such a subjective word and there's hardly a way to measure it.
    Guitar tone is, as you say, subjective, but that surely doesn't mean we should throw our hands up and say that we cannot opine on the qualities of different tones?

    My post, however, was primarily about studio usage, where there are ostensibly also being used, and the one album I am positively aware of was recorded with Kempers had inferior guitar sounds. Stalingrad is a great modern metal recording, but it is not a good advertisement for the Kemper.

    I can definitely understand convenient packaging, although in that case there are also far smaller packages to be had.

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Well tweaking overload eh?

    Lets see, hmmmn, how many people are opening up their amp chassis on stage at soundcheck & adjusting the tube bias of their amp at every gig? Anyone doing it?

    Well if you dont do that in real situations with an actual thing then why fiddle with that with a fractal unit even though its an easy edit? There is a way of using a unit like a helix or fractal axfx in a live setting compared to a studio environment. Deep editing is available but that doesnt mean you "have to" use it. Keep it simple live, create patches designed for live use at gig volume, dont hope for the home made sounds at listening levels will translate well at gig level, they dont, eq changes will be needed as well as fx level adjustments. The important key is to not set patches using headphones for live use, for that buy a FRFR solution that can help much more.

    The kemper gives you the option to profile your "own" amp+cab, if you are using mutiple amps on a album, the kemper can profile them & they are available for you to carry around anywhere. Thats the most important feature of it that separates it from others. There are many profiles that people have made & uploaded online, however, these are of their amp set to sound a particular way, strong chances you wont like it or it wont work the same for you. This is why new guys that are using it live might not sound great because perhaps they are using profiles not made by them or they did make them but it was to their liking & isn't translating well live.

  17. #117
    Administrator Mincer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascension View Post
    THIS!! Spend hours tweaking a modeler and have it sounding GREAT on your system then plug in some where with a real bonehead on the board and suddenly you sound like pure dog poo through the system and are royally SCREWED for the night!!
    To be fair, this can happen with an amp, too, and has happened to me at many big festivals and small clubs alike. One of the big reasons I went to a Fractal was the fact that sound people could mess up sticking a mic in front of my amp. Sure the sound onstage is great, but out there it sounds terrible. So that can happen either way. I find it consistent a lot more right now.
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  18. #118
    Mojo's Minions devastone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    To be fair, this can happen with an amp, too, and has happened to me at many big festivals and small clubs alike. One of the big reasons I went to a Fractal was the fact that sound people could mess up sticking a mic in front of my amp. Sure the sound onstage is great, but out there it sounds terrible. So that can happen either way. I find it consistent a lot more right now.
    This, it is way more likely to happen with an amp IME. You can always tell them to just put you straight through with no effects, but if the sound guy has a problem running sound, I'm definitely not counting on them being able to mic a cab to get a good sound. If you are playing with an amp on stage you probably are hearing the amp more and don' t have a clue what it sounds like through the PA. Of course, we use an Aviom in-ear system so everyone sets their own mix, which is disconcerting because I have no idea what it sounds like out of the mains, which makes dynamics really hard.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by masta' c View Post
    LOL, you're treading on dangerous ground by suggesting tubes are "obsolete"...beware the claws!

    Besides, the whole point of the Kemper is to accurately recreate that very technology.

    That's why it doesn't make sense to think of a Kemper in terms of "improving" tone at all. Rather, the Kemper is an expert at "maintaining" existing amp tones in both response and feel, while adding modern recording appointments, greater power over fine-tuning and eliminating the hassle of carrying 15 amps around all the time to get 15 different sounds.

    My questions it this : ''who needs 15 diff amps sounds'' ? (unless you are in a cover/wedding/bar band)

    MOST (read 99%) of the professional guitar players, in original bands, only need one amp (two at best) to get their core signiture tone.
    Angus Young, Slash, Pepper Keenan, Jack White, and, and, and, does not need 6 diff amps to get 'their' sound.
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  20. #120
    Mojo's Minions masta' c's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper - what's the point?

    That goes back to my earlier post...most pros/touring artists only need to emulate a few basic amp tones, but they need it done well and that's where the Kemper succeeds.

    There are so many holes in these arguments being made against the Kemper here...judging it based on the tone of an album (absolute worst way to judge ANY piece of gear), suggesting power issues can't impact a tube amp or that mindless sound guys can only make a digital amp sound like crap in a room, etc.

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