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Thread: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

  1. #1
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    Default Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Hey all,

    I managed to stumble across a cold solder joint amongst my self cut and soldered cables. Upon fixing it my rig became so much more alive. If I had one bad cold solder joint, there might be more but, pulling everything apart is a pain if there’s no reason. If I start after my buffer and go across 10 true bypass pedals, what level of resistance and capacitance would be in the - thinks are wired right range? I haven’t checked capacitance yet but I’m seeing 6 ohms across the bunch which seems okay to me.

    Thoughts

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    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Plug straight into your amp. Then plug into your board. If the first sounds way better, then there's a problem and it's time to start debugging.
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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    thats basically it right there. 90% of the time i run guitar->od/boost->amp and i think it sounds best that way. but there are times/situations that having more variety is useful or even required so you start putting things together. pulling everything out of the signal chain and referencing the direct tone every so often is a good practice.

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    Super Toneologist Liam1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    I've had a similar issue, direct to amp, then isolate one pedal at a time, the larger the pedalboard, the more time it may take....

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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    10 true bypass in a row? I assume you have some of those on all of the time If not, I'd be weary of that many before even measuring though -As remember -True bypass pedals force the signal to transition through a minimum of 11 different metal conductor mediums before coming out the other side -all with different impedance, capacitance characteristics etc It doesn't just look like a single cable -electrically speaking -as some people often compare -it is inferior at some point (no telling where that point is to your ears though) -but that inferior electrical path does add up when you have a bunch of TB pedals serialized.

    So for a sec let's forget calculating impedance, capacitance etc through the entire chain and just look at the physical layer of the argument for giggles -Even if this doesn't really apply exactly to you directly OP and is ultimately an abstraction for the forum to foster discussion

    So think of it like this -for every pedal you add in true bypass mode your signal must pull electrons on and off the flowing differing materials -And for consumer metal to metal connections most devices are using Solder as the intermediate connection -as expensive Wire Wrap and Crimp and Solder or Punch or punch then solder (true conductor to conductor connections) are not used in pedals so there is always solder in between components and wires.

    PATH OF ONE "SWITCHED OFF" TRUE BYPASS PEDAL (Multiply this by 10x)

    *1/4" Female Connector Jack (Brass/ Nickel Coated likely)
    *60/40 Solder (Tin, Copper and maybe Silver or cheaper Bismuth etc) -or Crimped Molex Tin Connector
    *short Copper Conductor
    *(second) 60/40 Solder (Tin, Copper and maybe Silver or cheaper Bismuth etc) -or Crimped Molex Tin Connector
    *Nickel coated Brass Solder Lugs on True Bypass Switch
    *Nickel coated internal wiper blade inside True Bypass Switch
    *(second) Nickel coated Brass Solder Lugs on True Bypass Switch
    *(third) 60/40 Solder (Tin, Copper and maybe Silver or cheaper Bismuth etc) -or Crimped Molex Tin Connector
    *(second) short copper braided or solid conductor wire
    *(forth) 60/40 Solder (Tin, Copper and maybe Silver or cheaper Bismuth etc) -or Crimped Molex Tin Connector
    *(second) 1/4" Female Connector Jack (Brass/ Nickel Coated likely)

    That is the path through a single TB pedal, so with 10 pedals multiply this list by 10 plus the 10 shorty cables you must connect them with which are as follows

    PATH OF ONE PATCH CABLE (Multiply this by 10)

    *1/4" Male Connector Jack (Brass/ Nickel Coated likely)
    *60/40 Solder (Tin, Copper and maybe Silver or cheaper Bismuth etc)
    *short Copper Conductor (6') ?
    *(forth) 60/40 Solder (Tin, Copper and maybe Silver or cheaper Bismuth etc)
    *(second) 1/4" Male Connector Jack (Brass/ Nickel Coated likely)

    So if all True Bypass pedals are off, you have the AC signal from your first buffer or pickups transferring through at minimum 160 metal material transitions instead of the tone of a single cable (5 transitions) to achieve the same clean tone -which before we even start to calculate the high end roll off and signal degradation/noise floor rise with a multimeter and a calculator, you can see it's a lot of stuff in between.

    I guess if you always have one of your TB pedals on All of the the time this would be mitigated a bit of course. -but if it were me I would definitely plan for a buffer on once or twice always through that many pedals to keep the signal up though all the transitions and reduce the noise floor rising and roll off.

    This was all off the top of my head, so apologies if i missed anything
    Last edited by NegativeEase; 05-30-2019 at 07:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Thanks all,

    My chain looks like Fuzz --> Buffer --> Tuner --> Compressor --> Wah --> Phaser --> OD --> OD --> Clean Boost --> Flanger --> Analog Delay --> Tremolo with selectable on/off buffer.

    All my cabling is Canarre GS-4 with Squareplug SP-400s. Turned out that when doing a reconfigure I found that I had a bad solder point between my boost and my flanger and it totally killed my high end... Originally thought it was the length of my signal chain. Fixed the problem cable and everything sounded a million times better. Out of superstition I questioned every one of my solder points so asked about resistance and capacitance. Measured it with everything on bypass (tremolo on true bypass) and went from the tuner to the tremolo alone.

    Between those points I'm seeing 7.8 ohms of resistance and 2 nf capacitance, so thinking that's a pretty good indicator that all is good. Also the tuner to tremolo sound with a 10 foot cable in and out is really, really close to a 20 foot cable. So thinking it was just the one bad solder point.

    Everyone else think I should just leave it and move on... or is it worth the effort to go to town on this?

    Thanks

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Jacew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Two points.

    The connection tone degration people use to argue against true bypass is pointless. There is absolutely no noticeable difference tonewise if all the connectors and patch cables are good. At worst couple meters of extra cable makes more difference.

    But since you do have buffer before TB pedals it doesn't matter anyway.
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacew View Post
    Two points.

    The connection tone degration people use to argue against true bypass is pointless. There is absolutely no noticeable difference tonewise if all the connectors and patch cables are good. At worst couple meters of extra cable makes more difference.

    But since you do have buffer before TB pedals it doesn't matter anyway.
    agreed that enough buffers mitigate concern of too many TB pedals in a row, but the argument is NOT pointless as there ABSOLUTELY is point at which jack after switch after jack after patch raises S/N ratio, rolls off high end and degrades the tone. ABSOLUTELY -there is no argument you can make -the OP said 10 PEDALS IN A ROW! -You would have a point if he said only 2 or 3 True Bypass pedals in a row perhaps -but not 10 -jeez I can show that difference on my lower resolution handheld spectral analyzer and with my ears -don't even need my expensive one or to convince anyone by listening -that's a simple one.
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    It would have taken less time to test each pedal individually than it took to post this thread and read the responses.
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Did you plug straight in, and then compare the sound to plugging in through your board? Because if that sounds fine . . . who gives a ****?
    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    I think it is time to get on to playing. It is really easy to look for issues that aren't there. You found the one that was there, so move on and play.
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    agreed that enough buffers mitigate concern of too many TB pedals in a row, but the argument is NOT pointless as there ABSOLUTELY is point at which jack after switch after jack after patch raises S/N ratio, rolls off high end and degrades the tone. ABSOLUTELY -there is no argument you can make -the OP said 10 PEDALS IN A ROW! -You would have a point if he said only 2 or 3 True Bypass pedals in a row perhaps -but not 10 -jeez I can show that difference on my lower resolution handheld spectral analyzer and with my ears -don't even need my expensive one or to convince anyone by listening -that's a simple one.
    It's just stray capacitance that matters. If it makes a difference, switching to a smaller tone cap solves it. Exactly same electrically.

    Sure it can add noise, which affects the S/N ratio. That's different thing altogether. Signal degradation is pretty minimal (5 ohm vs. 10 ohm resistance in cable is meaningless)
    "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
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    Mojo's Minions devastone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Yes, a bad cable will destroy your tone, if it passes anything at all, the rest of this is just down in the noise, I agree with Mincer, time to go play. Your buffer should make the effects of anything after it negligible.

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    of the Forum PFDarkside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    Did you plug straight in, and then compare the sound to plugging in through your board? Because if that sounds fine . . . who gives a ****?
    It never does though....
    Oh no.....


    Oh Yeah!

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    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by PFDarkside View Post
    It never does though....
    Stand closer to the drummer for a while until it does. After a few minutes everything starts sounding kinda cymbally.
    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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    of the Forum PFDarkside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    Stand closer to the drummer for a while until it does. After a few minutes everything starts sounding kinda cymbally.
    And if you do it enough, everything sounds cymbally all the time!
    Oh no.....


    Oh Yeah!

  17. #17
    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by PFDarkside View Post
    And if you do it enough, everything sounds cymbally all the time!
    Cymbally and constantly speeding up. :P
    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    One of the best drummers I've played with forgot his cymbals at a gig, and he pulled it off. We asked him to forget them for every one after that.
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    of the Forum PFDarkside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    At least a hihat?
    Oh no.....


    Oh Yeah!

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Resistance and capacitance across pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by PFDarkside View Post
    At least a hihat?
    Nope. He used, what I think are called boobams, instead. Cool, tribal sounds.

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