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Thread: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

  1. #81
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Mr. B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    I've spent another day trying to figure out what feels/sounds wrong with all the rigs on my new Kemper. I noticed that my playing feels extremely sluggish/spongy, especially when trying to play shred type leads. At first I thought the amp rigs were just too dry, and I needed to add delay/reverb, but the more I listened the more it became clear that there is a latency, a lag on every note that I am playing, like the amp is a second behind what I am playing. The faster I try to play, the more and more obvious it becomes.

    I have NO effects running, no delays, nothing in front of the amp, I have reset to wipe out any global settings that may have been causing it. I am plugged straight into the amp, and then either straight to headphones, or straight to FRFR speakers from the mains out, or straight to a powered cab from monitor out. Nothing seems to make a difference in what I am hearing. It is very noticeable. I can't even play my usual faster shred stuff because it throws me off.

    It does NOT sound like standing a few feet away from a real amp. It is much more drastic than that. Other effects units run into the same speaker setups do not have the problem. Is there some obvious setting I am missing? The "Constant Latency" does not seem to effect it at all as far as I can hear. Has anyone experienced this before? Surely this is not normal. I don't see how anyone would play lead guitar using the Kemper.

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    Mojo's Minions devastone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    The latency on modern modelers shouldn't be noticeable, have you tried contacting Kemper directly? Do you have a compressor or something in the chain that is squashing the attack?

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. B View Post
    I've spent another day trying to figure out what feels/sounds wrong with all the rigs on my new Kemper. I noticed that my playing feels extremely sluggish/spongy, especially when trying to play shred type leads. At first I thought the amp rigs were just too dry, and I needed to add delay/reverb, but the more I listened the more it became clear that there is a latency, a lag on every note that I am playing, like the amp is a second behind what I am playing. The faster I try to play, the more and more obvious it becomes.

    I have NO effects running, no delays, nothing in front of the amp, I have reset to wipe out any global settings that may have been causing it. I am plugged straight into the amp, and then either straight to headphones, or straight to FRFR speakers from the mains out, or straight to a powered cab from monitor out. Nothing seems to make a difference in what I am hearing. It is very noticeable. I can't even play my usual faster shred stuff because it throws me off.

    It does NOT sound like standing a few feet away from a real amp. It is much more drastic than that. Other effects units run into the same speaker setups do not have the problem. Is there some obvious setting I am missing? The "Constant Latency" does not seem to effect it at all as far as I can hear. Has anyone experienced this before? Surely this is not normal. I don't see how anyone would play lead guitar using the Kemper.
    A couple of questions.

    Have you updated firmware and software?
    Have you spoken with Kemper in detail about this?
    Have you met up with a Kemper user in your community to get a second opinion on the condition and performance of yours?
    Have you discussed with Kemper shipping it back for evaluation or swapping it?

    If you have an issue getting someone at Kemper to help you let me know (DM me) I have connections to the right people -and those people would want nothing more than to make you stoked.

    Disclosure: I am NOT a Kemper artist or user -just in the business with too.many friends and connections.
    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Mr. B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Yeah, I have spent over a week trying to get the problem solved through their Help Desk by texting them, and also posted details on the Kemper Forum, where there is a support guy trying to help. Their phone help desk will only reply about once every 24 hours, so troubleshooting can only happen at a snail's pace. This particular unit has had one problem after another, which makes me wonder if what I am hearing now is not yet another glitch. I really can't imagine any serious guitarist playing through this thing and enjoying it. I have had several digital modelers over the years which I haven't been crazy about the tone of, but this is just plain unusable. I have probably spent over 50 total hours reading and trying to solve the issues. I have worked on it for hours every day for over a week.
    Everything is updated and I have been through their suggested resets multiple times, as I have already said. I don't know any other players around here who would have had a Kemper. The only thing in my area are a bunch of acoustic bluegrass players.

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. B View Post
    Yeah, I have spent over a week trying to get the problem solved through their Help Desk by texting them, and also posted details on the Kemper Forum, where there is a support guy trying to help. Their phone help desk will only reply about once every 24 hours, so troubleshooting can only happen at a snail's pace. This particular unit has had one problem after another, which makes me wonder if what I am hearing now is not yet another glitch. I really can't imagine any serious guitarist playing through this thing and enjoying it. I have had several digital modelers over the years which I haven't been crazy about the tone of, but this is just plain unusable. I have probably spent over 50 total hours reading and trying to solve the issues. I have worked on it for hours every day for over a week.
    Everything is updated and I have been through their suggested resets multiple times, as I have already said. I don't know any other players around here who would have had a Kemper. The only thing in my area are a bunch of acoustic bluegrass players.
    How long have you have the unit?
    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Your kemper unit is faulty, can happen. If a full factory reset did not fix it then it wont get resolved. Send it back for replacement if its new, dont waste more time on it.

    I think the kemper ships with free profiles from their user base uploads, dont remember now. You will waste a lot of time auditioning most of them, best solution is to profile your own amp or buy profiles online, that will save you time & a lot of it.

    The only thing that came to my mind about the lag in output was if a dual signal chain was active Left & Right with a +30ms pre delay set between the two. I get muffled outputs on my devices if the headphone jack is making a poor contact with the socket. I doubt that for you since you tried the main outs as well. Also you are getting no apparent difference in sound with a tele vs LP through it, this too after a factory reset i presume? All this points towards a defective unit, it CAN be user error but then a factory reset would reset all global settings as well, so its likely not user error. I would send it back if it were my unit doing this.

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    HardtailPisser ibanezrocks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    "I don't have time to tweak settings on a digital device but I'll write 1000 words about how I don't want to spend time on that". Somehow the longest posts are always from the anti-modeling crowd.

    He lost me at "I can hear the difference between brands of cables". I thought it was satire at that point but then I saw the length of that post.

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    Mojo's Minions Gtrjunior's Avatar
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    Default Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezrocks View Post
    "I don't have time to tweak settings on a digital device but I'll write 1000 words about how I don't want to spend time on that". Somehow the longest posts are always from the anti-modeling crowd.

    He lost me at "I can hear the difference between brands of cables". I thought it was satire at that point but then I saw the length of that post.

    Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk
    About a year or so ago I was putting my pedalboard together and I soldered all of my own cable.
    When I first started I could definitely hear a muffled character from the cable. I ordered a different brand (after much research)and began again, this time it wasn’t muffled.
    Now I’m not saying that I can tell a difference in brands in an A/B comparison but I could definitely tell that one cable had more capacitance than the other.

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Mr. B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Believe me, I have spent entire days trying to eliminate every variable that could be causing the bad tone. Cables, guitars, speakers, outputs, inputs, settings in the Kemper. I downloaded every rig most people mentioned as being the best in their opinion. Admittedly, underneath the clangy lagging sound, I can hear that there is some awersome potential there. Its just that my Kemper imparts this very fakely digital and laggy sound to every rig model in it. I can make it brighter or muddier, I can add or subtract effects, I can even run it through a powered cab with tubes to give it a bit of tube flavor, but the same bad sound/feel persists. I'm saying it is a tone and feel that would have caused every lead guitarist to have given up guitar years ago. It can't be working correctly. I keep thinking maybe there is magic switch that no one has thought to tell me about yet that will immediately give it back its body. I remember there being a switch on the back of an older Vox Tonelab that I was running through a powered cabinet years ago that made a HUGE difference when switched from "line out" to "Amp" or something like that. Thats what it reminds me of.

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Order Lord View Post
    ****WARNING, DIGITAL MODELLING AMP USERS WILL BE BUTT HURT BY MY OPINIONS... AND COVER BAND MUSOS TOO, WARNING, WARNING....RED ALERT*****... And they will call me and aural snob. Nothing new.

    .......

    At the download festival earlier this year, of the 40 bands on the bill, I saw ONE Kemper in a LOCAL band, and all the international bands, anthrax, slayer, alice in chains, judas priest, behemoth.... All were using tube rigs, and they sounded great, punchy and full of life. The two bands I saw using modellers, sounded lifeless, like listening to a CD through a PA.


    MY EARS DO NOT LIE, but please remember that I am not saying I'm right and you're wrong, or telling you what to use, thats up to you. I am merely stating the pros and cons I have seen, heard. My ears don't lie.
    I agree 100% that modelers don't hit home like tube amps. I do hate to break it to you though, even Metallica uses Fractal computer things on stage nowadays. Lots of bands use the Fractals in live settings. I don't see as many bands using Kemper profilers, but I know they're out there. You're going to catch a lot of flack around here with that opinion, because I also said a very similar thing once upon a time here. After much listening and demo'ing, I believe that Fractal products gets the closest to the "sound". I've played a couple Kempers in different settings and I did not like them at all. Much akin to most modeling units, I find the sound very buzzy, harsh, and sterile. I'm also the kind of person to dislike or even leave a place if the band's sound is too poor. There's plenty of bars out there, why should I punish my ears?


    Anyway, for OP:

    It sucks that you went out on a limb and purchased Kemper that either doesn't work correctly or is fundamentally flawed. I have not been impressed by any Kempers I've played on. The OP's first post, IMO, just describe what a Kemper sounds like. Thin, trebly, etc...

    If I was amp shopping and it takes me forever to dial in sounds that are dissatisfying, then forget it. I'm moving on to the next amp.
    ROCK ON.

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    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    trash the thing and pick up a Tweed Deluxe or if you need loud a Tweed Bassman...all variables eliminated except one...it's all up to you and your guitar...have heard lots a hot shots make these things do wonders...it takes a different kind of work but a much more useful kind in the long run...

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    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    If I put a POD XT in a box behind a Marshall stack, you would extoll the virtues of tubes and their righteous glorious tone. If I put a a Modeller out there and mic'd a Marshall in an isolation box behind the backdrop, you tell me how the sound lacked punch.

    Your opinions are so ridiculously biased you don't even know. What you THINK you saw on stage, may even have little to do with what actually happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad City
    He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    If I put a POD XT in a box behind a Marshall stack, you would extoll the virtues of tubes and their righteous glorious tone. If I put a a Modeller out there and mic'd a Marshall in an isolation box behind the backdrop, you tell me how the sound lacked punch.

    Your opinions are so ridiculously biased you don't even know. What you THINK you saw on stage, may even have little to do with what actually happened.
    If I had a nickel for every artist I know who's actual small stage rig is off to the side out of sight, and the company that gives them money and product's giant rig is featured on stage.
    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Order Lord View Post
    ****WARNING, DIGITAL MODELLING AMP USERS WILL BE BUTT HURT BY MY OPINIONS... AND COVER BAND MUSOS TOO, WARNING, WARNING....RED ALERT*****... And they will call me and aural snob. Nothing new.

    Firstly, I am sorry that you are having issues with your Kemper. There is way, way less issues with a Tube amp, far easier to fix 90% of the time just by replacing a valve. In 26 years of my band, Dark Order, I have only had 2 sets of power tubes fail, 3x preamp tubes, all in V3 of my amps fail, and was informed on this forum yesterday why this happens (increased voltage).

    Anyhow this post is my experience and point of view from 26 years of playing live, writing 4 albums, three released the forth is being worked on now.

    This is NOT me saying I'm right/your wrong, or vice versa. It just my experiances.

    I have never been a cover band musician in 26 years, could never stomach making money from other peoples music. There is a lack of soul, craftmenship, pride, expression, and the will to conquer which just pisses me off to no end. BUT, each to their own. Obviously if you're happy to play in Covers, and own and use a Kemper or any other modeler, then good on ya....but that will not covert me over nor convince me.

    1/ Kempers and all modellers are just tools of CONVENIENCE. My ears don't lie, they don't sound, respond, feel like a *good* tube amp. And YES, I ALWAYS hear the difference, every gig. My blessing and my curse. I also hear differences in cable brands, tone pots/no tone pots, valves, speaker cables, different picks, string brands.... like I said, it both a blessing and a curse, never f-n stops. These things I hear often stops me dead in my tracks when all I want to really do is write songs and play gigs etc.

    Yes, amp modellers they are light weight (you whimps hahaha), yes they are flexible with all their sounds. But those points don't win me over because of what me ears have heard.

    6 times have we played with bands using Kempers, and 6 times have I been SHOCKED and blown away how my Marshall TSL100, I gig with TWO, have not just sound a 'little better' and different, but in actual fact, they have totally blown every kemper out of the water in so many ways, how STAGGERINGLY different, clearer, punchier and better my sound has been from the Kempers. Staggeringly different. And of coarse this makes me super happy, on the inside. I never walk around at gigs gloating verbally about what I hear. I am not American, hahaha. I just concentrate on playing the best show I can, which is a struggle in it self always.

    Recently, I was also blown away by this occurrence of difference with the Kreator / Vader gig at the Manning bar. i have never been more angry and disappointed with a gig that I have attended, and wanted my refund.
    Vader, who's music I know nothing of, blew me away, I could understand EVERY RIFF, EVERY NOTE, along with the rest of the bands sound. I was blown away with their music and their performance, all because of the clarity of their TUBE amps rigs, Mesa Duel Rec into Orange Cabs. And I am a Marshall nut, not Boogie. I am not a fan of Vader, but after that show I was.

    Now, I AM a fan of Kreator. And their set was super dissapointing. Why? Because all I heard was a 'kick drum and vocal show'. They were using Kempers into the PA. IT SOUNDED LIKE A SWARM OF BEES! Couldn't understand ONE riff, especially with my favourite classics . I was seething with anger.
    When you say that punters don't care what amp and sound you have, you can be dead wrong.
    Clarity, punch of guitar sound in the make or break of whether you grab a new fan, or not, as was the case for me.
    Plus the fact of how many times have I seen amp modeller users fiddle with their sound WHILST playing a gig, is so unprofessional.
    It pisses me off.

    I with my rig, a road case that has TWO Marshall TSL100 heads, and a 6-space rack above that has a GLXD14 wireless, Mxr smartgate, mxr 10EQ, Ibanez RC99 chorus, all wire up with Colossal Cable, just roll up to the stage, flip my front and rear lids off, plug my power cable, footswitch and speaker, and I am done, ready. I never have to touch my EQ or volume. I am on and off stage in under 3-4 minutes. No joke. Never have clarity issues, never am too loud or too soft, NEVER sound like a swarm of bees. Just great tight sounding Thrash Metal riffage that everyone aurally understands and comprehends, and so they then can really decide if they like my music/songs of not. Instead of struggling to understand what we're playing.

    And the punters hearing the clarity and punch of my riffs, coupled with the rest of the band, my vocals and the quality of my songs, we always win over a few new fans, without fail. Guitar Rig sound clarity and punch, only with a good tube amp.

    If people in the crowd CANNOT understand your riffs, they cannot get into your music. Period. And Kempers, in my many experiences, fail to do this important thing.
    So yes, the amp rig you have is CRUCIAL, AND MATTERS TO CROWD.

    2/ Kemper do NOT profile Amps. They only profile a 'signal chain', a mear digital snapshot. Putting a digital signal chain 'photo' into another signal chain live is ridiculous. You're loosing harmonics, and struggling to get clarity. Having said that I have heard better results from Line 6 helix and Ax fx than Kempers, but still no cigar compared to a tube amp. Still that swarm of bees sound.

    Please, by no means am I also saying that ALL tube amps are clear and tight, no way. But, I'd say about 80% of tube rigs I have heard at gigs, I have been impressed in many ways over the 26 years.

    3/ Buying a Modeller is buying into the 'iphone' problem.

    Kempers cost, depending on the model, between $3000-$4000AUD. Holy **** balls! Imagine the high end tube amp you could get for that money, in my case thats TWO or Three tube amps. The point being, is that once you buy digital tech, computers etc, that tech becomes 'old' tech in about 6 months. Every time Axefx or Kemper come out with a new model, their users **** bricks, trying sell the old unit cheap then forking out another $4000 for the new model. Crazy. And to add, when computers, which is exactly what they are, go beyond a certain age, there is no longer parts for them, you're stuffed then. In my case, my TSL100 amps are 18years old, and 12 years old, always have replacement parts available, always fixable. And in 18 years, how many gigs and album recording have they served me?
    Where will your modeller be in 18 years?

    4/ Tube amps are too big and heavy for fly gigs.
    RUBBISH. I bought recently a Marshall DSL20HR. Problem solved.

    5/ 100w tubes cannot be cranked at home to record my album, so a digital amp modeller is better.
    RUBBISH. I purchased both the RIVERA silent sister isocab AND Rivera Rockcrusher Recording attenuator/analogue speaker emulator. Problem SOLVED.

    6/ No person cares about you having a unique tone and sound, so just use digital profiles of cool rigs.
    RUBBISH!
    All the greatest bands, Queen, Metallica, Slayer etc have unique recognisable guitar sounds. Part of what makes them great bands with impact. The problem withmodern bands is that they all sound alike, like Siamese twin, because of digital modellers, drum triggers. Just PURE laziness in not trying to build you own tone.

    Every tube amp has imperfections that add to the uniqueness of its tone. So, in my case, my two TSL100's sound different from one another, and of course any backline TSL rig that I have played at fly gigs.
    Yes, this is where a Kemper has an advantage, you can take YOUR SOUNDS in a USB to a fly gig and plug into another Kemper and do your show. Right? WRONG. THE SIGNAL CHAIN HAS CHANGED. Look at my experience at the Kreator gig.


    7/ And my last point. Digital Modellers will kill tube amps.

    Axe fx came out in the 2000's and Kemper has been around since 2010. A whole decade has passed, and still I see heaps of bands STILL using tube rigs, especially probands. Why? Because they sound better still, the modellers are not the answer, especially with all the small tube amps on the market.
    Plus I am exited that BRIMAR WILL START MAKING Valves in the U.K. soon, using modern computer tech for superior valves to those of current production Russian, Slovak and Chinese valves.

    At the download festival earlier this year, of the 40 bands on the bill, I saw ONE Kemper in a LOCAL band, and all the international bands, anthrax, slayer, alice in chains, judas priest, behemoth.... All were using tube rigs, and they sounded great, punchy and full of life. The two bands I saw using modellers, sounded lifeless, like listening to a CD through a PA.


    MY EARS DO NOT LIE, but please remember that I am not saying I'm right and you're wrong, or telling you what to use, thats up to you. I am merely stating the pros and cons I have seen, heard. My ears don't lie.

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    Ultimate Tone Member Dahla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. B View Post
    I've spent another day trying to figure out what feels/sounds wrong with all the rigs on my new Kemper. I noticed that my playing feels extremely sluggish/spongy, especially when trying to play shred type leads. At first I thought the amp rigs were just too dry, and I needed to add delay/reverb, but the more I listened the more it became clear that there is a latency, a lag on every note that I am playing, like the amp is a second behind what I am playing. The faster I try to play, the more and more obvious it becomes.

    I have NO effects running, no delays, nothing in front of the amp, I have reset to wipe out any global settings that may have been causing it. I am plugged straight into the amp, and then either straight to headphones, or straight to FRFR speakers from the mains out, or straight to a powered cab from monitor out. Nothing seems to make a difference in what I am hearing. It is very noticeable. I can't even play my usual faster shred stuff because it throws me off.

    It does NOT sound like standing a few feet away from a real amp. It is much more drastic than that. Other effects units run into the same speaker setups do not have the problem. Is there some obvious setting I am missing? The "Constant Latency" does not seem to effect it at all as far as I can hear. Has anyone experienced this before? Surely this is not normal. I don't see how anyone would play lead guitar using the Kemper.
    Well, this ain’t normal... the constant latency setting is for reamping (same di signal through different rigs. The latency is fixed so that phase is coherent between «takes»).

    I think I read somewhere that the maximum latency on the Kemper is 4.5 ms or something. That shouldn’t be enough to throw you off...


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    Super Toneologist justFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    If I had a nickel for every artist I know who's actual small stage rig is off to the side out of sight, and the company that gives them money and product's giant rig is featured on stage.
    So...how many nickels would you have???

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    If I put a POD XT in a box behind a Marshall stack, you would extoll the virtues of tubes and their righteous glorious tone. If I put a a Modeller out there and mic'd a Marshall in an isolation box behind the backdrop, you tell me how the sound lacked punch.

    Your opinions are so ridiculously biased you don't even know. What you THINK you saw on stage, may even have little to do with what actually happened.
    Are you talking to yourself????

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by justFred View Post
    So...how many nickels would you have???
    At least 50... so $2.50 ..... killin' it!
    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    I myself prefer tube live tones. Feedback control with tube amps and that satisfying fat fundamental is so nice.

    That being said, I couldn't care less if I were to use a modeller live. I use a modeller to record, and a good number of my own personal heroes use modellers live and in the studio along with tube amps.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Myaccount876 View Post
    Attenuators are for pussies. Neighbors calling the cops isn't a problem - if the cops can actually still decipher the neighbor's complaint on the phone with the Marshall in the background, you're doing it wrong and it needs to be louder.

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    Mojo's Minions JB_From_Hell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    If I put a POD XT in a box behind a Marshall stack, you would extoll the virtues of tubes and their righteous glorious tone. If I put a a Modeller out there and mic'd a Marshall in an isolation box behind the backdrop, you tell me how the sound lacked punch.
    I've probably brought this up before, but have you seen the Andertons video where they compare Rob's Marshall and (I think) some Fender combo to a Kemper? Lee and Rob are in the main room with a guitar, Rabea is in the other room switching between the Kemper and the tube amps. They warn you when to close and open your eyes when Rabea is switching them, so you can watch it from Rob and Lee's perspective.

    At first, both of them seem very certain when they're hearing tubes or digital, but as it goes on, they wind up doing exactly as you described, describing the tendencies of each when they're hearing the other. It's a really fun video if you haven't seen it.

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