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Thread: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

  1. #141
    Mojo's Minions JB_From_Hell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Heard a cool Kemper tip from Keith Merrow the other day. He profiles amps at a very low gain setting. He says if you do it this way, when you add gain on the Kemper, it seems to bring out more of the amp’s positive qualities. Said it usually ends up sounding better than the actual amp with the gain up high.

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    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    Heard a cool Kemper tip from Keith Merrow the other day. He profiles amps at a very low gain setting. He says if you do it this way, when you add gain on the Kemper, it seems to bring out more of the amp’s positive qualities. Said it usually ends up sounding better than the actual amp with the gain up high.
    So one if two things is going on here:

    - the Kemper doesn't work well profiling the amp at high gain
    - the Kemper works great, and he's profiling amps at high gain that he doesn't like the sound of
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    So one if two things is going on here:

    - the Kemper doesn't work well profiling the amp at high gain
    - the Kemper works great, and he's profiling amps at high gain that he doesn't like the sound of
    Or, Kemper profiles high gain just fine, but gain being what it is, if you start with a lot, and then add more, it's always just going to descend into complete chaos the more that you continue to add.
    If you profile at a lower initial gain, you have more room to turn the gain up later.

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    Mojo's Minions JB_From_Hell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    So one if two things is going on here:

    - the Kemper doesn't work well profiling the amp at high gain
    - the Kemper works great, and he's profiling amps at high gain that he doesn't like the sound of
    By that same logic, anyone who uses an overdrive pedal into their amp bought an amp they don't like the sound of.

    The Kemper takes a digital picture of your amp/signal chain set a particular way. The controls on the device are not necessarily going to behave exactly the same way they do on your amp. Earlier, I posted that it's not accurate to call it a modeler. Someone said I was splitting hairs. That guy does not understand what each device is doing.

    Even if the Kemper sucks at modeling high gain devices, or Keith doesn't like the sound of his amps at high gain, who cares? The guy has an arsenal of tools, and figured out a way to make one of them do something cool that the others don't do.

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    What's a Kemper?

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by 67Mopar View Post
    What's a Kemper?
    Twenty bucks, same as in town

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    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    The Kemper takes a digital picture of your amp/signal chain set a particular way. The controls on the device are not necessarily going to behave exactly the same way they do on your amp.
    See - this is what I find odd. I'd think you had to model the amp by setting every knob at every level, etc....

    A treble knob going from 7-8 might be a different change than 8-9, and maybe 9-10 does almost nothing, and so on. Same thing with gain curves, etc....

    My "one pic" of an amp is useless the moment I turn a knob that doesn't work the way the Kemper algorithm says, if I'm all about the 'reproduction.'

    That said - maybe it does cool things. - just not exact copy things.
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    I'm inclined to agree that there's some unknown unknown at play here. Keep pushing tech support to make them do their d@mn job (it sucks you just can't rely on people to do their job and you have to micromanage everything but it's just a fact of life sometimes).

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post


    They're not that flat/honest. Big bump in the lower end and swings between +/- 10 dB for the rest of the frequency range.
    I never completely trust the frequency response graphs they include with mics and speakers. They do some "smoothing" f'ery to make them look just a little bit flatter etc. than they really are.
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    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Yeah, but that's not even close to flat after the smoothing!
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    Yeah, but that's not even close to flat after the smoothing!
    Exactly, who knows what it's really like without specialized equipment?
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    See - this is what I find odd. I'd think you had to model the amp by setting every knob at every level, etc....

    A treble knob going from 7-8 might be a different change than 8-9, and maybe 9-10 does almost nothing, and so on. Same thing with gain curves, etc....

    My "one pic" of an amp is useless the moment I turn a knob that doesn't work the way the Kemper algorithm says, if I'm all about the 'reproduction.'

    That said - maybe it does cool things. - just not exact copy things.
    This is why when everybody's saying, "Modeling/Profiling" and I'm saying, "They're not synonyms," it's not splitting hairs. They are NOT doing the same thing.

    Now, the only person I've heard point out the example I used was Keith Merrow. If you're familiar with him, you know that absolutely nothing he does is focused on recreating classic amp tones of the 60's and 70's. If having every tone possible from a Deluxe, a Plexi, and an AC30 is the goal, getting those amps is probably still the best option.

    However, your "maybe it does cool things - just not exact copies" statement is the key here. I'm interested in coming up with new stuff, so I'd rather have cool things than copies.

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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    See - this is what I find odd. I'd think you had to model the amp by setting every knob at every level, etc....

    A treble knob going from 7-8 might be a different change than 8-9, and maybe 9-10 does almost nothing, and so on. Same thing with gain curves, etc....

    My "one pic" of an amp is useless the moment I turn a knob that doesn't work the way the Kemper algorithm says, if I'm all about the 'reproduction.'

    That said - maybe it does cool things. - just not exact copy things.
    Kemper doesn't model the amp, maybe that's the next step. That will take a lot more processing bandwidth than replicating snapshots.

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Jacew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    This is why when everybody's saying, "Modeling/Profiling" and I'm saying, "They're not synonyms," it's not splitting hairs. They are NOT doing the same thing.

    Now, the only person I've heard point out the example I used was Keith Merrow. If you're familiar with him, you know that absolutely nothing he does is focused on recreating classic amp tones of the 60's and 70's. If having every tone possible from a Deluxe, a Plexi, and an AC30 is the goal, getting those amps is probably still the best option.

    However, your "maybe it does cool things - just not exact copies" statement is the key here. I'm interested in coming up with new stuff, so I'd rather have cool things than copies.
    I always thought the whole point of Kemper was that you get to "freeze" the sound you have. When there's all these countless factors affecting tone, Kemper is the closest you can get to maintain "that exact tone".
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    Mojo's Minions Sirion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    As a scholar I have, in fact, looked a bit into the possibilities of using the Kemper as a scholarly tool, but as far as I can tell, reproductions do not seem to be accurate enough to make it worthwhile.
    Last edited by Sirion; 08-17-2019 at 01:50 AM.

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    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    However, your "maybe it does cool things - just not exact copies" statement is the key here. I'm interested in coming up with new stuff, so I'd rather have cool things than copies.
    That's why I really love my Digitech Chorus Factory. It starts with a foundational chorus tone, but then adds other stuff to it. Could you model an "exact" chorus and setting? Yeah, I suppose with some major tweaking.

    Can I get get awesome chorus? All damn day easily.
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  16. #156
    I poop in my KISS diapers Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    However, your "maybe it does cool things - just not exact copies" statement is the key here. I'm interested in coming up with new stuff, so I'd rather have cool things than copies.
    That's why I really love my Digitech Chorus Factory. It starts with a foundational chorus tone, but then adds other stuff to it. Could you model an "exact" chorus and setting? Yeah, I suppose with some major tweaking.

    Can I get get awesome chorus? All damn day easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad City
    He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

  17. #157
    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    I like the chorus of comments about the chorus factory. Very meta.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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