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Thread: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

  1. #21
    Mojo's Minions Kamanda~SD's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    1. Cool videos thanks for sharing.
    2. The SL-X was all tube, no diodes
    3. The people that scoff as soon as they hear 'diode clipping' are indeed the same ones who drool over these mods...or use overdrive pedals.

    I remember when I was looking for my first JCM800 everyone was like AVOID THE DUAL CHANNELS, DIODE CLIPPING BAD!!! Honestly, although I do prefer my 2204, my 2210 sounds just as much as an 800 as my 2204. I digress...
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  2. #22
    Mojo's Minions devastone's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Forgot to mention, yes, cool video, thanks for posting JMP. Haven't had time to sit through the whole thing but what I did skip around and it offered a lot of explanation of the mods.
    Last edited by devastone; 10-11-2019 at 09:14 AM.

  3. #23
    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamanda~SD View Post
    1. Cool videos thanks for sharing.
    2. The SL-X was all tube, no diodes
    3. The people that scoff as soon as they hear 'diode clipping' are indeed the same ones who drool over these mods...or use overdrive pedals.

    I remember when I was looking for my first JCM800 everyone was like AVOID THE DUAL CHANNELS, DIODE CLIPPING BAD!!! Honestly, although I do prefer my 2204, my 2210 sounds just as much as an 800 as my 2204. I digress...
    2210 was my main gigging amp back in "the day"... had a great distorted tone when you turned up the master volume.

    People who scoff amp diode clipping are prolly the ones who play at .5 volume
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
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  4. #24
    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    the 2205 was my main amp for years and it sounded great when the master was up above 4, below that it sounded thinner and more buzzy than i liked but still not terrible. i had the 1x12 combo version 4212 or something modded by trace at voodoo and it was great but i let it go for whatever reason

  5. #25
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Dave Locher's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Forgive my Marshall ignorance but I've never owned one. Does having the channels "jumped" mean one channel is feeding into the other in series, or that they are both on at the same time in parallel?

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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    2210 was my main gigging amp back in "the day"... had a great distorted tone when you turned up the master volume.

    People who scoff amp diode clipping are prolly the ones who play at .5 volume
    Given that one of the big advantages of diode clipping is that it doesn't need as much volume as tube distortion, an amp that uses diode clipping but still needs the MV up to sound good is kind of missing the whole point.

  7. #27
    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical View Post
    Given that one of the big advantages of diode clipping is that it doesn't need as much volume as tube distortion, an amp that uses diode clipping but still needs the MV up to sound good is kind of missing the whole point.
    Depends on the person's definition of "sound good".

    Diode clipping (or dist/od box of choice clipping , etc) does not replace a pushed phase inverter tube... tonewise.
    Last edited by LLL; 10-11-2019 at 02:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    The early 2205/2210s had a PPIMV, so you shouldn't need a lot of volume on one to push the PI.

    No cathode follower, and putting the tone-stack between the two preamp gain stages, were a major fail on that series, IMO. It's certainly a completely different flavor than the 2203/2204, regardless of the diodes.
    Last edited by Cynical; 10-11-2019 at 02:43 PM.

  9. #29
    Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical View Post
    Given that one of the big advantages of diode clipping is that it doesn't need as much volume as tube distortion, an amp that uses diode clipping but still needs the MV up to sound good is kind of missing the whole point.


    Perhaps maybe in theory [if you look at it that way] but in reality not really.

    Whats even more im-practical is to have a 100 or 200 watt non-master volume amp in 2019 for gigging.

  10. #30
    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    unless you are just using it as a clean pedal platform. a twin is a beautiful clean sound even on 2

  11. #31
    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post
    Whats even more im-practical is to have a 100 or 200 watt non-master volume amp in 2019 for gigging.
    I use my 50 watt NMV Plexi circuit for that - but gotta do some tricks (slaving/reamping) if you want the cranked tone - with volume control.

    But yeah, totally agree if that person doesn't do said tricks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
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  12. #32
    Mojo's Minions dystrust's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by devastone View Post
    I realize the Jubilees had diode clipping as well, the first Marshalls to use it IIRC, but I guess they were acceptable since Slash used them.
    The first Marshalls with diode clipping were the 2205/2210 in 1983. They completely redesigned the preamp in either 1986 or 1987 and the later version sounds vastly superior IMO. The early ones were furry, buzzy, and generally lacking in clarity, while the latter version sounds like Know Your Enemy by Rage Against the Machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical View Post
    The problem with JCM900s isn't that they had diode clipping; the problem is, they sounded much worse than the JCM 800 2203/2204.

    (In fairness, the same was also true of the Silver Jubilee and 2210. And is also true of most "modded Marshall"-style amps I've encountered that aren't in the SLO/5150/Recto school.)
    I've played lots of JMPs (1959/1987/2203/2204) & JCM800s (2203/2204/2205/2210) over the years, and a 2555 Jubilee was my main amp for over 15 years. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd take a Jubilee over even a great sounding 2203 or 2204 any day. The Jubilee has more gain and a far more powerful tone stack, which translates to not needing a boost or having to fight how painfully bright some of those amps can be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Locher View Post
    Forgive my Marshall ignorance but I've never owned one. Does having the channels "jumped" mean one channel is feeding into the other in series, or that they are both on at the same time in parallel?
    Jumping channels only applies to the 4-hole non-master volume amps, and it runs both channels in parallel. The "Ritchie Blackmore" mod connects the channels in series.
    Last edited by dystrust; 10-11-2019 at 10:55 PM. Reason: Grammar fail.
    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

  13. #33
    Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    I use my 50 watt NMV Plexi circuit for that - but gotta do some tricks (slaving/reamping) if you want the cranked tone - with volume control.

    But yeah, totally agree if that person doesn't do said tricks.


    I was in the anti attenuator crowd for a long time until about 2 years ago when the house next door tried to start WW III over me playing & to be fair i was playing two 100 watt heads stereo. I bought a THD hot plate & it works really well. Just play one amp at a time at home anymore. The hot plate has variable attenuation & a line out. Normally i use the 8db cut and its just right.

  14. #34
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Rex_Rocker's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by pittbull View Post
    What company or person can build exact copy of the Jose amp listed above
    Isn't the Fortin Meshuggah basically a Jose-mod Marshall?

  15. #35
    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post


    I was in the anti attenuator crowd for a long time until about 2 years ago when the house next door tried to start WW III over me playing & to be fair i was playing two 100 watt heads stereo. I bought a THD hot plate & it works really well. Just play one amp at a time at home anymore. The hot plate has variable attenuation & a line out. Normally i use the 8db cut and its just right.
    Gotcha. Yeah 8db works but any more and tone suffers big time.

    I was in the attenuator camp from approx. 2003-2014 - until i learned reamping/slaving.

    Now my HotPlate sits on "Load" all the time as I tap the signal from the amp speaker out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecrusher View Post
    I thought it sounded great, until I heard something that sounded good.
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by dystrust View Post
    I've played lots of JMPs (1959/1987/2203/2204) & JCM800s (2203/2204/2205/2210) over the years, and a 2555 Jubilee was my main amp for over 15 years. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd take a Jubilee over even a great sounding 2203 or 2204 any day. The Jubilee has more gain and a far more powerful tone stack, which translates to not needing a boost or having to fight how painfully bright some of those amps can be.
    Ok, I have to ask -- what on earth are you doing that a 2203 with a boost doesn't have enough gain for? It's not like you don't need a boost with a Jubilee anyways, more gain doesn't get you around that need; even something with as much gain as a 5150 or a Recto benefits greatly from having something sculpt the signal to a compressed mid-hump before it hits the amp.

    I wouldn't call 2203s particularly bright; if anything, a 2555 has more treble IME. What 2203s are is focused, to the point of being slightly nasal/thin if played on their own... but in a mix, that nasal tone is exactly what you need. It cuts through well, with the bass holding down the low frequencies and the cymbals occupying the treble, and in a two-guitar band, it complements a scooped amp like a Recto or Uberschall wonderfully.

  17. #37
    Mojo's Minions dystrust's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical View Post
    Ok, I have to ask -- what on earth are you doing that a 2203 with a boost doesn't have enough gain for? It's not like you don't need a boost with a Jubilee anyways, more gain doesn't get you around that need; even something with as much gain as a 5150 or a Recto benefits greatly from having something sculpt the signal to a compressed mid-hump before it hits the amp.
    I never said that a 2203/2204 with a boost doesn't have enough gain. To further clarify what I did say, there are many occasions where a 2203/2204 needs a boost out front in order to have enough gain. For a large number of those instances, a Jubilee has enough gain on its own without the boost. While it's true that many players like a boost in front of a Recto or 5150, they're doing so for a totally different reason than your typical JCM800 player. With a Recto or 5150 the main purpose is to cut bass and boost mids, thereby tightening and focusing the amp's response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical View Post
    I wouldn't call 2203s particularly bright; if anything, a 2555 has more treble IME. What 2203s are is focused, to the point of being slightly nasal/thin if played on their own... but in a mix, that nasal tone is exactly what you need. It cuts through well, with the bass holding down the low frequencies and the cymbals occupying the treble, and in a two-guitar band, it complements a scooped amp like a Recto or Uberschall wonderfully.
    You're the only person I've ever encountered that thinks a Jubilee is brighter than a 2203/2204. The only possible explanations I can think of are running really bright tubes, or possibly the amp in question being a really early (pre-3000) Jubilee prior to the bass and channel balance issues being fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by dystrust View Post
    I never said that a 2203/2204 with a boost doesn't have enough gain. To further clarify what I did say, there are many occasions where a 2203/2204 needs a boost out front in order to have enough gain. For a large number of those instances, a Jubilee has enough gain on its own without the boost. While it's true that many players like a boost in front of a Recto or 5150, they're doing so for a totally different reason than your typical JCM800 player. With a Recto or 5150 the main purpose is to cut bass and boost mids, thereby tightening and focusing the amp's response.
    Have you ever tried a flat-boost in front of a 2203? It's total fail, mud city. The bass cut/mid boost is just as important to getting that amp to respond tightly as it is to a Recto or 5150 (in fact, a Recto or 5150 actually filters the input more than a 2203 does).

  19. #39
    Mojo's Minions dystrust's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1979 ARRCO JOSE MARSHALL

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical View Post
    Have you ever tried a flat-boost in front of a 2203? It's total fail, mud city. The bass cut/mid boost is just as important to getting that amp to respond tightly as it is to a Recto or 5150 (in fact, a Recto or 5150 actually filters the input more than a 2203 does).
    I can't say that I have because I generally don't care for how a 2203/2204 sounds. For the styles that I play a Jubilee gets the tones I need without having to bother with a boost or additional EQ.
    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
    And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

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